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August 17, 2009: How Culture Informs & Directs Storytelling, open chat 1

The transcript below covers the complete #litchat conversation on August 17, 2009. The order appears sequentially from the first post to the final post. Topic was open discussion How Culture Informs and Directs Storytelling.

LitChat Welcome to #litchat. We’re coming from Washington DC today. Joiin us now and introduce yourself. #Litchat
mciddangelo hallo evereebodee! #litchat
simonschuster RT @LitChat: Welcome to #litchat. We’re coming from Washington DC today. Joiin us now and introduce yourself. #Litchat
AndreaGardner @mciddangelo #litchat Hey All!
corb21 Hello All! #litchat
LitChat Topic of the week is HOW CULTURE INFORMS & DIRECTS STORYTELLING. #Litchat
dosankodebbie I’m here from Japan. Set my alarm clock twice for this! (though I’ll mostly just be eavesdropping) #litchat
VanessaDobbs Hi everybody #litchat
mciddangelo @LitChat the topic reflects the age-old argument of art reflecting life, or vice versa #litchat
stujallen hello all stuart from derbyshire #litchat
stujallen @VanessaDobbs hi vanessa #litchat
LitChat @dosankodebbie yea! You didn’t fall back asleep. #Litchat
VanessaDobbs @stujallen Hi Stu #litchat
AndreaGardner @LitChat I attempt to write what matters to me not the current market. #litchat
mciddangelo the topic can be addressed on two fronts: business and art itself. I believe. #litchat
WordNerdArmy Hi everyone. I’m the word nerd behind Word Nerd Army, and I’m Ms Twitter UK. This week I’m guest blogging on Booktrust’s blog #litchat
AndreaGardner By the time we write what is “Current” and get it published, it no longer is in #litchat
mciddangelo @AndreaGardner that is true; and I often try to tailor-make my works to the market just to make a buck. #litchat
AndreaGardner @mciddangelo But do they get published in enough time to be considered “Current?” #litchat
TimHoltorf #litchat I topic that hits home for me. This coming from a former broadcast journalist.
AndreaGardner @mciddangelo If so I want to know who your publisher and agent are because they will make HUGE $ in the fortune telling biz. #litchat
susanmpls @litchat hey litchaters, I work for a univ. press and read mostly fiction in my non-work reading. #litchat
stujallen tweetchat not working ,very well #litchat
corb21 Storytelling seems to me a timeline of culture because culture is always reflected in storytelling which is a neat play back. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @susanmpls hello πŸ™‚ it’s @rebeccawoodhead but in my Word Nerd outfit #litchat
mciddangelo @AndreaGardner in a broad sense. for example, what non-fiction topics are more headline than other articles #litchat
JSColley RT @JSColley: Received the galley copy of Denis Johnson’s Nobody Move. Looks great, can’t wait to read it. Thanks Pan Macmillian! #litchat
WordNerdArmy culture informs and directs storytelling in its form. Oral trad to written to film to twitter. Good stories transcend form #litchat
FictionCity Hi @litchat I write women’s fiction and live in Chicago. #litchat
WordNerdArmy culture creates and is reflected by stories. Culture is high and ordinary. This is culture. Litchat is a story we all buy into #litchat
AndreaGardner @mciddangelo You’re right. I think NF is able to follow the current easier than F. #litchat
mciddangelo @AndreaGardner fiction is a case of whatever house has the courage to take a chance on a new trend instead of following one. #litchat
AndreaGardner @mciddangelo You hit the nail, as usual! #litchat
WordNerdArmy @writeranonymous are you joining #litchat tonight? It’s on now
AndreaGardner So should authors of Fiction take risks in an attempt to set the next Cultural trend? #litchat
corb21 @AndreaGardner @mciddangelo fiction can follow any “current” not nessisarily the one we’re in now. #litchat
corb21 #litchat tweetchat just crashed! oh no! I might have to FOCUS on my work again…help!
AndreaGardner @corb21 But if it is not a current trend or impressive enough it has more chance to flop. Or am I wrong? #litchat
susanmpls @AndreaGardner @mciddangelo IMO fiction follows trends, too. ex: lot of fiction w/characters who make enviroment-friendly choices #litchat
AndreaGardner RT @Debs1: @AndreaGardner I think it is important to be true to your story, wherever it takes you #litchat ~I agree!
WordNerdArmy @AndreaGardner yes, culturally, but it depends on whether they can afford to take that risk financially #litchat
mciddangelo @corb21 @fictioncity kind of addresses this when she tells us that she writes women’s fiction. that trend is up. #litchat
TimHoltorf @AndreaGardner I honestly don’t know about that. I think that could bog a person down. #litchat
mciddangelo @susanmpls I’m addressing that issue now, m-o-f, with my new anti-whaling suspense novel #litchat
kashicat @susanmpls Good point. And you’d have had waves of feminist fiction in certain time periods, etc. #litchat
AndreaGardner How many books have you read where there is no spirit? I think the reason is that the author was attempting to follow others ideas #litchat
AndreaGardner @susanmpls True #litchat
susanmpls @litchat define cultural trend re: fiction-do you mean trends w/in fiction publishing, or culture trends that appear in the story? #litchat
irenelevine @irenelevine Just joining #litchat
George9Writer @mciddangelo And the man takes the double-dog dare! Boo-yah! #litchat
AndreaGardner Yikes! I seem to be missing some of the tweets! #litchat
corb21 @AndreaGardner me too! #litchat
corb21 @AndreaGardner for example retro settings & storylines R popular. Also modern day characters whisked to other times and vice versa. #litchat
JSColley RT @George9Writer: @mciddangelo And the man takes the double-dog dare! Boo-yah! #litchat You’ve been watching too much Cramer.
LitChat In selecting our topic, HOW CULTURE INFORMS, we’re referring to ethnic culture, rather than pop culture. #litchat
AndreaGardner RT @corb21: @AndreaGardner I’m not sure that’s taking a risk so much as being in the right place at the right time. #litchat
AndreaGardner RT @corb21: @AndreaGardner That’s not ness an on-purpose task. #litchat
mciddangelo @LitChat ah, well, if ya wanna be specific about it and all. #litchat
corb21 @LitChat thanks for the clarification #litchat
AndreaGardner RT @corb21: @AndreaGardner for example retro settings and story lines are popular. #litchat
AndreaGardner RT @corb21: @AndreaGardner Also modern day characters whisked to other times and vice versa. #litchat
mciddangelo to talk of culture informs, the main inspiration of late has been the focus on the Iraq/Afghan conflicts and the peeps there. #litchat
deberryandgrant @LitChat Late joining & Tweetchat not working… #litchat
deberryandgrant @LitChat Culture informing the author or the characters/story? #litchat
susanmpls #litchat thrillers good example of cultural influence on story. 25 yrs ago spy novels were US vs USSR. Today first world vs terrorists
jeremyduns Trying to get a grip on the topic of #litchat: how culture informs storytelling. I’m not sure I understand it!
jeremyduns @susanmpls Interesting! I write spy novels set in the Cold War (late 60s) and try to use what we know today to inform the stories. #litchat
jeremyduns @Litchat But is ethnic culture distinct from other forms in that way? #Litchat
mciddangelo kite runner and other works by Afghan writers have had a surge of popularity because of the conflicts #litchat
WordNerdArmy The appearance of vampires, disease etc connected with ‘Empire’ – fears of cultural ‘contamination’ etc – v interesting e.g. #litchat
AndreaGardner What defines Ethnic Culture? #litchat
doart @litchat Just joining. Memoirs of a Geisha is a great example of culture affecting story/characters. #litchat
dosankodebbie Wondering if aging/retirement conflicts seen from non-Western pov would appeal to Western readers (fiction for aging babyboomers) #litchat
susanmpls #litchat Nancy Drew is exmple of culture change: 1920s editions bad guys were always dark-skinned w/accent. That changed in later editions.
mciddangelo @doart I LOVE Memoirs of a Geisha! that is a good read. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @AndreaGardner all culture is ethnic. It’s the POV of the society from which it emerges – or the individual from which it emerges #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @dosankodebbie It seemed to work for Pearl Buck in Pavilion of Women. #litchat
mciddangelo @AndreaGardner Ethnic culture = works specific to a region or a people rather than the general mass. #litchat
danish_novelist At my readings in the US, academics told me that Scandinavian novelists always write about the outsider, but we all do! #litchat
TimHoltorf @dosankodebbie That’d be interesting. I write western fantasy. Take 2 elves, drop them into Deadwood in 1863, sit back and watch. #litchat
susanmpls @doart I loved memoirs of a geisha & would enjoy hearing how you think culture affected this book? #litchat
George9Writer Every writer has the palette of her/his cultural milieu to draw from – often having a novelty appeal to general reader #litchat
doart @mciddangelo In MOG culture changed her expectations in life and I had to think of the world from her perspective. #litchat
George9Writer Storytelling has, since the Beginning, been one way in which culture is imported from one society to another. #litchat
deberryandgrant @George9Writer Sometimes, if we’re lucky, it is more human than novelty that makes for a cross cultural appeal #litchat
pussreboots @TimHoltorf Now that sounds like a fun fantasy. #litchat
dosankodebbie @Mer_Blackwood @TimHoltorf Reason I ask is cuz I’m translating a story about man dealing w/post retirement in Japan. Fresh or no? #litchat
AndreaGardner I get the Ethnic Culture def but my confusion comes because shouldn’t all works help someone else understand a point? #litchat
pussreboots @dosankodebbie I think there’s lots of interest in Japanese stories beyond the manga that is imported. #litchat
TimHoltorf @pussreboots It’s a blast, because the two characters see human society in a different light #litchat.
mciddangelo @susanmpls you know, I guess we can draw WWII parallels to MOG #litchat
danish_novelist @George9Writer Many reviewers of The Tsar’s Dwarf thought that my novel was wonderfully weird. Maybe I’m more Danish than I think? #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @dosankodebbie Fresh to me. I usually like books that can give me an appreciate for another time, place, and culture. #litchat
TimHoltorf @dosankodebbie I’d still be interested in that. My own reading is rather diverse. #litchat
corb21 merger of cultural classics with pop culture is certainly a new trend ie PRIDE AND PREDJUDICE AND ZOMBIES or PRADA AND PREJUDICE #litchat
WordNerdArmy @AndreaGardner only if you believe fiction always has to be didactic. If not then why shouldn’t fiction deceive or be unreliable? #litchat
corb21 Keep forgeting to write “#litchat”
Mer_Blackwood @dosankodebbie And I don’t know a darned thing about what it’s like to be a retired man in Japan. #litchat
pussreboots @TimHoltorf I liked the western setting of Rapunzel’s Revenge. #litchat
deberryandgrant @AndreaGardner I think all work should tell a good story. If someone sees from a new POV as a result, it’s all to the good. #litchat
susanmpls Sometimes I think we trust novelists over journalists to teach us about other cultures & places. #litchat
pussreboots @Mer_Blackwood Neither do I but I would read a book about it. #litchat
deberryandgrant Tweetchat is back up #litchat
jeremyduns @susanmpls Sometimes I think we should. πŸ™‚ #litchat
mciddangelo @susanmpls but, it is interesting to note how those geishas lived to be what they were to men, contrast to how westn women are. #litchat
danish_novelist @Mer_Blackwood I wrote about a raunchy female dwarf in The Tsar’s Dwarf and I’m only raunchy πŸ™‚ #litchat
mciddangelo @susanmpls or, to be more simple, the way Japanese culture reflects the male-dominated society that the west isn’t #litchat
WordNerdArmy I think sometimes literary fiction challenges cultural preconceptions and commercial fiction confirms them #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @susanmpls @jeremyduns I probably do trust novelists over journalists, often … #litchat
George9Writer @deberryandgrant True (hopefully), though it seems ‘novelty’ might be one reason publishers choose to market it. #litchat
TimHoltorf @pussreboots I’m gonna have to check that out. #litchat
deberryandgrant @susanmpls sometimes it’s the only way we learn about any where else. I think books should be windows, not mirrors #litchat
jeremyduns By ‘ethnic culture’ do we mean ‘cultures very different to our own’? #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @susanmpls @jeremyduns Maybe not to show every point of view. But I expect most novelists try to tell someone’s POV well. #litchat
George9Writer @WordNerdArmy Hi Rebecca! If so, then how would upmarket (lit fic + commercial) fit into that equation? #litchat
danish_novelist @susanmpls Novelists are better at getting to the emotional truth than journalists and historians, that’s probably why #litchat
AndreaGardner @deberryandgrant Ladies you are ON today! #litchat
susanmpls @deberryandgrant agreed. tho occasionally the book as mirror highlights our own corruption and helps us see the need for change #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy And sometimes the other way round? Not sure I see the link. #litchat
AndreaGardner @WordNerdArmy Agreed. #litchat
TwinkleChar @danish_novelist “emotional truth” GOOD ONE! That is why I laugh and cry so much while writing, no doubt. #litchat
WordNerdArmy would ‘Stuart: A Life Backwards’ be a story informed by ‘ethnic’ culture – subculture #litchat
deberryandgrant @jeremyduns I’m not convinced the culture has to be VERY different. Esp. in this country.We are all Americans, but have many diffs #litchat
susanmpls @mciddangelo the west has a male-dominated society that is different from Japan, but I’d argue that West is still male-dominated. #litchat
BenRubinstein @George9Writer I don’t think up-market is inherently literary, just different demographic audience. #litchat
pussreboots @TimHoltorf It’s a very good graphic novel (sequel coming out soon). #litchat
deberryandgrant @AndreaGardner LOL. Been lazing around doing nothing for a few weeks–missed #Litchat. You can tell?!! #litchat
AndreaGardner @TwinkleChar And more than not your readers will feel when they read those same paragraphs. #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Which camps would you classify Orwell, Greene, Huxley, Ambler, Dostoevsky or Dickens? #litchat
danish_novelist @TwinkleChar Of course. Good literature should make you laugh, cry, and vomit #litchat
pussreboots @jeremyduns All of them write social commentary but in different genres. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @George9Writer That’s interesting to me because my novels are contemporary style – easy to read – but deal with literary/cultural.. #litchat
mcvane Noooo! (cries) RT @susanmpls Sometimes I think we trust novelists over journalists to teach us about other cultures & places. #litchat
dosankodebbie I agree @susanmpls @mciddangelo I’d argue that West is still male-dominated. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @George9Writer ..concerns and observations #litchat
TwinkleChar RT @danish_novelist: @TwinkleChar Of course. Good literature should make you laugh, cry, and vomit #litchat
deberryandgrant @danish_novelist and shout in anger–argue with the characters… Then you’ve had a good read. #litchat
mciddangelo @jeremyduns social fiction commentators, and you didn’t throw in Oscar Wilde #litchat
jeremyduns @deberryandgrant I’m not American. πŸ™‚ But WASP culture, for instance, is also ethnic, the ethnicity white. #litchat
jeremyduns @pussreboots Exactly! #litchat
George9Writer @BenRubinstein Supposedly ‘upmarket’ bridges literary and commercial, though it seems a broad category. #litchat
jeremyduns @mciddangelo I only had 140 characters. πŸ™‚ #litchat
agnieszkasshoes @WordNerdArmy I think sometimes lit fiction can be more “dangerous” cos it confirms preconceptions but pretends not to #litchat
danish_novelist @deberryandgrant I agree. We should be allowed to hate characters, but indifference is a killer #litchat
mciddangelo @susanmpls @dosankodebbie good argument, but from a male POV, I think western women are not domm’d now (humbly ducks his head) #litchat
jeremyduns @mcvane Why cry at that? If I want to learn about Europe in the 30s, is Eric Ambler a worse guide than newspaper archives? #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns Hi saw you in Writing mag this month πŸ™‚ – probably literary. Dickens, for example, deals with complex social issues.. #litchat
deberryandgrant @jeremyduns Absolutely. But when 1 ethnicity is the dominant culture of a country, other ethnicities become somehow more different #litchat
10MinuteWriter My WIP does all three! TwinkleChar RT @danish_novelist: @TwinkleChar Of course. Good literature should make you laugh, cry, & vomit #litchat
AndreaGardner RT @agnieszkasshoes: Good point! Very dangerous! #litchat
George9Writer @WordNerdArmy That said, would you consider your own books to challenge, or confirm, culturual preconceptions? #litchat
deberryandgrant @danish_novelist Indifference is the killer of everything…ultimately of all #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns but also uses humorous observation. Technically cross-over I guess but I’d say literary if pushed. #litchat
VictoriaMixon Mystery, mayhem, and sci fi—Free Edits of novel hooks, Week Two! http://victoriamixon.com #writechat #litchat #novels #editing #revision
George9Writer @mciddangelo You’re on your own, bro. #litchat
TwinkleChar @George9Writer Perhaps rather than challenge or affirm, the quest is to “question.” #litchat
danish_novelist @jeremyduns Why do writers have to belong in camps? If so I’m a tragicomic Danish historical satirical novelist. Sigh. #litchat
AndreaGardner @mciddangelo Duck and RUN bud! #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Did you? Great! πŸ™‚ Dckens was seen as commercial fiction then. Death adds weight! #litchat
George9Writer @agnieszkasshoes A generalization, Dan, and subject to the definition of ‘literary fiction’: assumption that it’s status-quo. #litchat
TwinkleChar @TwinkleChar Meant to type correct quote which was to challenge or confirm … Fickle fingers. #litchat
mcvane @jeremyduns Because many Scottish historical/contemporary novels abroad enforce stereotypes / offer skewed portrayal of Scotland. #litchat
susanmpls @mciddangelo A more accurate way to state it is that Western women aren’t as silent as the Geisha is shown to be in Golden’s bk. #litchat
LitChat Excellent convo to start the week. Carry on on as you wish, but be sure to come back on Wednesday for more. #Litchat
deberryandgrant @jeremyduns as commercial as they come. He was serialized… #litchat
AndreaGardner @mciddangelo We still do not get paid what men do for the same job. AND the religious persecution of women in the US is sickening! #litchat
susanmpls @mcvane is that bad? to trust novelists above journalists? #litchat
dosankodebbie @mciddangelo @susanmpls By”male domin”I’m thinking economy/politics still centers round men even in West.Places of power&influence. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns like I said, technically it crosses over but I view it as literary because it’s subversive. It feels like it’s written #litchat
George9Writer @TwinkleChar My own quest: to question, to challenge, & sometimes subvert. #litchat
mciddangelo @susanmpls @dosankodebbie I mean, (clears throat) what I meant to say was … is it hot in here? πŸ˜‰ #litchat
jeremyduns @mcvane How about foreign journalists covering Scotland? #litchat
AndreaGardner @susanmpls – Great comeback! #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns for a purpose other than financial gain or immediate popularity. It speaks over generations. #litchat
jeremyduns @deberryandgrant Aren’t all publshd writers commercial, or trying to be? The books aren’t given away! πŸ™‚ #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @mcvane I see journalists routinely doing hatchet jobs on their political opponents. As a class, I can’t trust them at all. #litchat
deberryandgrant @dosankodebbie @mciddangelo @susanmpls of course it does. No matter how you dress it up, it’s still a man’s world… #litchat
TwinkleChar @jeremyduns exactly. #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy But doesn’t it take generations to know that? Not sure I like this crossing over stuff. Doesn’t it mean ‘I liked it’? #litchat
deberryandgrant @jeremyduns I know that I don’t find the term offensive at all. Literary means you want to be reviewed. Commercial means making $$ #litchat
danish_novelist @Debs1 I agree. Characters with good and evil conflicts are the best. That’s why I love compassionate Nazis and hateful priests #litchat
deberryandgrant @jeremyduns And this is my job. I don’t do it for free…so commercial I am proud to be. #litchat
DocClef @litchat Hi, I’m a somewhat published poet, podcaster, and essayist, intruding and dropping in. Commerce vs. Art is the topic? #litchat
dosankodebbie @mciddangelo I’m only interested in the male-dom aspect as it relates to what readers can relate to, esp in fiction about Japan. #litchat
mciddangelo I think that women dominate many areas of the west – including the publishing world. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @George9Writer re: my books – both. I wanted to write really good stories that made people think about how they view others.. #litchat
jeremyduns @deberryandgrant Surely ‘literary’ writers want to make money, too? Why send off the envelopes? #litchat Straying OT, sorry!
AndreaGardner Ok all, I must run. My kids who are visiting their Grands are on the phone. Hope to catch you on Wed. #litchat
jeremyduns @DocClef No, sorry, the topic is etnhic culture’s influence on storytelling! #litchat
WordNerdArmy @George9Writer they’re not literary because they’re easy to read and you don’t HAVE to do battle with the issues to ‘get’ them.. #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns I’ve written stories aimed directly for a market. Work in progress is in a format with almost no commercial prospects. #litchat
George9Writer RT @deberryandgrant … I don’t find the term offensive at all. Literary means you want to be reviewed. Commercial means making $$ #litchat
TwinkleChar @deberryandgrant Commercial also wants to be reviewed well, which can lead to $. Sometimes. Right? :< #litchat
jeremyduns @deberryandgrant Same! #litchat
mcvane @jeremyduns If journalists screwed up, you can call them on it. You can’t wth authors because they’ll flash creative licence card. #litchat
BenRubinstein @George9Writer In my experience, “upmarket” just means that it’s commercial fiction with tennis rackets/horses. Could be cynical. #litchat
deberryandgrant @DocClef No not at all. Topic is How (Ethnic) Culture Informs Fiction #litchat
mciddangelo @dosankodebbie Clavell’s Shogun was set in Feudal Japan, and you can see how repressed women were, but that was a caste system #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns Making money would be great, but I really wanted to tell this particular story, and it wants an archaic format. #litchat
George9Writer @WordNerdArmy I applaud you for that desire, and hope that you can do so. #litchat
agnieszkasshoes @deberryandgrant yes still man’s world but mustn’t let that disguise other inequalities. #litchat
BenRubinstein @mciddangelo There are many women in publishing, yes. In the lower/mid positions. Executive is largely male #litchat
jeremyduns @Mer_Blackwood Fair enough, but if you try to get it published it will then be ‘commercial fiction’, surely. #litchat
deberryandgrant @jeremyduns @TwinkleChar Sometimes. But you both know exactly what I mean! LOL #litchat
WordNerdArmy @George9Writer Also, I wrote them for readers rather than reviewers BUT I’d be bored if they were just a good read #litchat
susanmpls @mciddangelo There are notable women at the top in Pub & we know their names. The men at the top? Too many to remember them all. #litchat
DocClef @jeremyduns “”If my notes should cause the groom, whom I haven’t met, an uneasy moment or two, so much the better…” #litchat
JSColley @jeremyduns Don’t you think some authors just want to be read? Although not too many would say no to the money, if offered. #litchat
danish_novelist @jeremyduns Literary writers want to make tons of money, but it’s not the most important for us. Is it for you? #litchat
DocClef @jeremyduns “…Nobody’s aiming to please, here. More, really, to edify, to instruct”” JD Salinger re: subversive vs. commerce #litchat
BenRubinstein @deberryandgrant I don’t think that’s a good dichotomy. Lots of commercials get reviewed and sell. #litchat
George9Writer @BenRubinstein Interesting, will have to look more deeply (or less) into this upmarket phenomenon. #litchat
jeremyduns @Mer_Blackwood But do writers of so-called ‘commercial fiction’ not also write stories they want to tell? And then try to sell it? #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @mcvane I can call anybody on anything. With what effect? #litchat
deberryandgrant @agnieszkasshoes Absolutely not. No “lipstick on the pig” here–no offense just couldn’t help the almost archaic cultural ref! #litchat
mciddangelo @susanmpls my agent is female, my eds have been female, heck, most of my writer friends are female #litchat
agnieszkasshoes @deberryandgrant been blogging lots on publishing & social/cultural exclusion http://www.agnieszkasshoes.blogspot.com (after the hats!) #litchat
susanmpls @MCidDAngelo not trying to attack, but don’t believe women are anywhere near equity. do believe better than at some times in hist. #litchat
JSColley @mciddangelo Shogun is one of my all-time favorite books. Cried when I read Clavell passed away. #litchat
dosankodebbie @mciddangelo The theme I’m dealing with in my translation is how a Japanese man loses power/respect/life meaning when he retires. #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns Sure. Just that some stuff has a lot more commercial potential. I don’t write epic poetry expecting bestsellerdom. #litchat
jeremyduns I have opened a hornet’s nest! #litchat Hold on a sec while I reply.
mciddangelo @BenRubinstein good point, mon frer. #litchat
DocClef @deberryandgrant “How (Ethnic) Culture Informs Fiction #litchat” is it not culture in general that informs literature, and the reverse?
BenRubinstein @mciddangelo Good example. I interned at Lit Agency. 5/7 of the agents were female. The 2/7 were the owners. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns Students of lit get to define ‘literary’ in retrospect. Critics in the present. #litchat
DocClef @deberryandgrant I’m multi-ethnic myself, so yes, it does inform. It informs the person and that background informs the work. #litchat
George9Writer Have we come full-circle, by mistake? “How the Culture of COMMERCE Informs Storytelling” #litchat
agnieszkasshoes @WordNerdArmy much literary fic is very easy to read: Ellis’ Less Than Zero; Yoshimoto’s Kitchen; even Life of Pi #litchat
jeremyduns @DocClef Salinger was a writer of commercial fiction, ie published. No longer. And I love JD, but that’s not a flattering quote! #litchat
deberryandgrant @BenRubinstein Yes–and perhaps I should have said reviews of the right sort: NYT Review of Books, Kirkus, WAPO, etc. not USA Today #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns Why don’t you like the ‘cross over’ thing? Thinky Commercial work better for ya? #litchat
mciddangelo @susanmpls oh no, heh! I’m not defending or attacking either – it’s a good topic! πŸ™‚ #litchat
dosankodebbie @susanmpls @MCidDAngelo My interest is in how quickly men become powerless after retirement even in a male-dom society like Japan. #litchat
BenRubinstein RT @WordNerdArmy: @jeremyduns Students of lit get to define ‘literary’ in retrospect. Critics in the present. #litchat (nicely put)
jeremyduns @JSColley But it’s not offered: they seek it out! As do all published writers. So ‘commercial fiction’ seems an odd distinction. #litchat
susanmpls @mcvane things read is newspaper presented as “fact” vs. w/ novel, reader should know to ask: truth or made up & verify #litchat
WordNerdArmy Am writing an article at the mo about literary v commercial. I’m calling it ‘would you rather be clever or popular?’ #litchat
deberryandgrant @dosankodebbie @susanmpls @MCidDAngelo their life has been their work. When that’s done, to them (many of) all is gone. #litchat
TwinkleChar @deberryandgrant Do you think PW reviews matter as much as the ones you mention? After all, writers read too. #litchat
deberryandgrant @DocClef In the best cases, absolutely. #litchat
DocClef @jeremyduns (OT! I know!) I was quoting “For Esme”, writ. in 1950, just thought it would inform the conversation. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @BenRubinstein thanks for the rt – glad you liked that πŸ™‚ #litchat
deberryandgrant @JSColley Mine as well. Loved it. #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns In some ways, it is an odd distinction. #litchat
mciddangelo @dosankodebbie @deberryandgrant I think it is a society norm for both retired men and women to become less effective. #litchat
George9Writer @agnieszkasshoes Sorry, though we studied it in college, I do not accept Less Than Zero as literary fiction – cynical nepotism | #litchat
deberryandgrant @jeremyduns @JSColley We didn’t invent the term “commercial,” but we use it because the industry does. #litchat
danish_novelist You only get satisfaction as a writer when you write from your heart, not from your wallet. But we need all kinds of books #litchat
WordNerdArmy @agnieszkasshoes literary fiction IS dangerous – that’s why I love it πŸ™‚ #litchat
DocClef @WordNerdArmy – clever or popular is a false dichotomy, we tend to reward cleverness (in the “cuteness sense”) with popularity. #litchat
dosankodebbie @deberryandgrant Yes, but does society discard a post-retirement man as thoroughly in the West as is true in Japan? #litchat
TwinkleChar @mciddangelo Hm. I think retired women are at an age where they’re often coming into their power, maybe in a new form or adventure. #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy I don’t like either much! I think both terms are slightly disingenuous and condescending. #litchat
DocClef @jeremyduns – I think we can agree that the purpose of selling literature is different from writing it. You can’t sell what isn’t. #litchat
deberryandgrant @dosankodebbie I don’t think society does, I think here it’s a self imposed kind of exile. I watched it happen to a good friend #litchat
deberryandgrant @dosankodebbie Was a career police officer retired as chief. Now watches history channel, golf channel and talks about the old days #litchat
DocClef literature is dangerous, subversive, popular, and commercial. No need to separate it out. #litchat
jeremyduns @deberryandgrant Sorry, wasn’t blaming anyone, just pointing out the oddness. Somerset Maugham wrote ‘commercial fiction’. #litchat
TheNewAuthor @WordNerdArmy If you are clever long enough you will be popular with the ones you should be popular with…I think you will. #litchat
mciddangelo why is it that I get a jump in SPAMMER followers whenever I’m in #litchat? or #writechat?
dosankodebbie @mciddangelo @deberryandgrant Less effective yes, but there’s still a place for retired men in Western society. Not so much Japan #litchat
susanmpls @JoLynneValerie “online, indie & small presses” not the money center of the industry. tho like to think we are the innovators πŸ˜‰ #litchat
SteferstheGreat @mciddangelo I’ve never noticed that myself… hmm… Interesting. #litchat #writechat
deberryandgrant @danish_novelist I think heart compels us to write in the 1st place. On the other hand, I admit the wallet keeps me on task. #litchat
ShelahMarie RT @DocClef: literature is dangerous, subversive, popular, and commercial. No need to separate it out. #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Popular! Isn’t the point to be read? If not, keep the thing in your drawer. #litchat
DocClef @dosankodebbie I think the loss of a sense of purpose is a great angle on the subject. Whereas in American culture it’s…#litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns #litchat creativity is thwarted by commercialism but blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism
agnieszkasshoes @WordNerdArmy lit fic gr8 when it’s dangerous TO the establishment. Not so much when dangerous FOR it #litchat
deberryandgrant @jeremyduns No offense taken. It is very odd. But we seem to be stuck with it. #litchat
DocClef @dosankodebbie in your 20s, Japanese corporations give that purpose to them early. I would say it’s a shift of value. Great topic #litchat
TheNewAuthor I believe we should have an Editors appreciation day. I am revising my MS and I know understand how tough their job really is. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns it’s not an ENTIRELY serious title. πŸ™‚ It struck me that it was high school philosophy on an adult stage #litchat
BenRubinstein @DocClef @WordNerdArmy I agree, “clever” doesn’t mean evocative or controversial, which is more where literary goes. #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @agniezkasshoes I wouldn’t agree with that. There are establishments I don’t want overthrown and evil revolutions. #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy How about the readers? πŸ™‚ And sorry, I thought ‘thinky’ was a typo. Is that your term? It’s horrid! #litchat
agnieszkasshoes @George9Writer I did say “sometimes”: read too much middle class drivel pretending to be edgy/radical (like Ellis in fact!!) #litchat
BenRubinstein @dosankodebbie What is the place of retired men in Western society, that is greater than in far-Eastern? #litchat
DocClef RT@WordNerdArmy It struck me that it was high school philosophy on an adult stage <- awesome! #litchat
George9Writer @jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Should be a balance between commercial viability and literary significance. NOT mutually exclusive. #litchat
StevenSavile @jeremyduns you are such a little rabble rouser, Mister Duns, says the commercialist of commercial writers heh #litchat
jeremyduns @Debs1 Aren’t they inextricably linked? To reach readers you need to sell it, usually. Hence my dislike of the term! #litchat
deberryandgrant RT @DocClef: literature is dangerous, subversive, popular, and commercial. No need to separate it out. #litchat
DocClef Non-commercial writing comes from your soul, not your wallet; though sometimes it could come from broke desparation. #litchat
agnieszkasshoes @Mer_Blackwood true. It’s when they become exclusive & normative at once you have problems #litchat
jeremyduns Well put! RT @WordNerdArmy #litchat creativity is thwarted by commercialism but blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns I think you’re being reductive if you say the point of writing is simply “to be read.” Any beach-read is “read.” 1/2 #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Sadly, I think it’s the level the discussion of that issue is still at. #litchat
DocClef @jeremyduns one of the great things about our more fringe-based culture is that uncommercial ideas find their audience. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns hmm. You don’t ‘do’ light-hearted do you? ‘Thinky’ was my term for that second. I apologise if it offended u & will.. #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns But “beach-reads” aren’t the most many authors strive to create 2/2 #litchat
jeremyduns @StevenSavile I know! I never mean to be, honest. Back me up, then! πŸ™‚ #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns attempt to be utterly humourless for the rest of litchat :Β¬l #litchat
dosankodebbie @DocClef The story’s focus is not so much shift in man’s own values, but shift in how society views the value of a retired person #litchat
deberryandgrant RT @WordNerdArmy #litchat creativity is thwarted by commercialism but blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @Jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Knowing that what I’m writing is centuries out of fashion is just realism. Narcissism? Nah … #litchat
DocClef @jeremyduns I know that this line of thinking may seem naive, but it’s important to note. We haven’t come too far from pamphlets. #litchat
jeremyduns What if you wrote a commercial novel just because you loved that sort of book and wanted to write one? Shocker! πŸ™‚ #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns excellent – you finally caught up with that tweet. Glad I wrote something of which you approve :Β¬l #litchat
DocClef RT @WordNerdArmy #litchat creativity is thwarted by commercialism but blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns @wordnerdarmy Means if I want readers I need a long-term plan, and need to find them through my own efforts. #litchat
DocClef Also RT @deberryandgrant #litchat
George9Writer @jeremyduns Nothing at all wrong with that … as long as you do it well. #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns That’s fine, but that’s not literature any way you argue it. So therefore the distinction holds on a basic level #litchat
WordNerdArmy @Mer_Blackwood – the point is that you are writing for readers so you’re not writing without the market in mind #litchat
deberryandgrant @Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns @wordnerdarmy These days most writers have to work at finding their own readers. #litchat
StevenSavile @jeremyduns what can I say? I’m a hack heh. Would argue with @DocClef whether I am writing Stargate or Silver its still my soul #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns Great! There’s a lot of ‘commercial’ stuff I love to read. #litchat
DocClef I’m in love with the forced brevity of this conversation. #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Depends on your definition of ‘beach read’. #litchat
TwinkleChar @BenRubinstein Re “beach reads.” U honestly believe writers don’t set out to write them?Don’t hope to make “best beach read” lists? #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @wordnerdarmy Yeah. It’s just that it’s a small and particular market. If I didn’t want to communicate, I’d scribble in a diary. #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein So if it sells well it can’t be literature? #litchat
WordNerdArmy nothing wrong with writing just for yourself – a diary is something you write for yourself but 4 it to be lit there must be readers #litchat
DocClef @litchat I have a whole list of beach-reads I must grab. They are quite literary. Pages in between binding, after all. #litchat
George9Writer RT @deberryandgrant These days most writers have to work at finding their own readers. #litchat
deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy Don’t want to have to choose btw clever and popular. Will take both thank you. #litchat
WordNerdArmy ..or there must be readers in the future #litchat
StevenSavile @jeremyduns @BenRubinstein don’t you mean it’s not ‘great’ or ‘worthy’ or some variant? Tis still literature #litchat
dosankodebbie @BenRubinstein Maybe the post-retirement opportunities for contributing to society and family are greater for a Western man? #litchat
DocClef @deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy actually not a fan of clever, though I’ve been accused of it from time to time. #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said literature didn’t sell well. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @George9Writer I work hard down the Twitter mines finding my readers – v hard work… Hye Ho!! #litchat
deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy am 1/2 of a writing team and while we had a story we wanted to tell, from the beginning we wanted this 2 b a career. #litchat
George9Writer My books are literary (they use words) and commercial (they are for sale, and sometimes people buy them) … cultural too! #litchat
danish_novelist @deberryandgrant Maybe we all would be better off if we kept our hearts in our wallet? πŸ™‚ #litchat
BenRubinstein @TwinkleChar The opposite, I think authors definitely intend to write “beach-reads” when they do. #litchat
DocClef @StevenSavile …and I would agree. Point! #litchat
agnieszkasshoes RT @deberryandgrant These days most writers have to work at finding their own readers [it IS work, but can be SO rewarding too] #litchat
deberryandgrant @DocClef I quite like clever. Don’t care for cunning. But clever is A-OK w/me. #litchat
BenRubinstein @StevenSavile I think we’re using diff. definitions of “literature.” I mean as opposed to commercial. #litchat
DocClef @StevenSavile my point wasn’t that commercial literature wasn’t soulful, indeed it could be, I’m a fan of the commercial. #litchat
jeremyduns ‘Those who have lived before such terms as ‘high-brow fiction’, ‘thrillers’ and ‘detective fiction’ were invented realize that… #litchat
deberryandgrant @agnieszkasshoes We have been very fortunate in both finding and keeping them. Not easy, but u r right-very rewarding. #litchat
jeremyduns …melodrama is perennial and that the craving for it is perennial and must be satisfied.’ TS Eliot #litchat
deberryandgrant @agnieszkasshoes Working on our end of summer newsletter to them now–or I should be. #litchat
StevenSavile @DocClef I write two kinds of book, media and original, I couldn’t do either without burying my soul in it. It’s my life. 1/2 #litchat
deberryandgrant @danish_novelist Love it!! #litchat
WordNerdArmy @deberryandgrant nothing wrong with that. I need to write commercial fiction but I want to write it too. There’s a place for both #litchat
deberryandgrant RT @danish_novelist: @deberryandgrant Maybe we all would be better off if we kept our hearts in our wallet? πŸ™‚ #litchat
George9Writer @BenRubinstein “Literature” relates to content: from Samizdat to editions put out by major pub. houses #litchat
StevenSavile @DocClef it takes you 6 hrs to read it, but it is my every waking minute while I work on it for months. I’d go mad any other way2/2 #litchat
TwinkleChar @BenRubinstein Thanks for clarify. What do you think makes something a beach-read book? Do literary readers frequent the beach too? #litchat
hfibonik No, blind creativity without a market is *art*. :PT @WordNerdArmy …blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism #litchat
DocClef @litchat – another false dichotomy – commercial vs. literary. Great literary stuff in the end, becomes quite commercial. #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein My point is just that I don’t see why those terms are used as opposing ones. πŸ™‚ #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns nice quote. Of course it’s nonsense. The commercial and literary markets were around in middle ages. #litchat
StevenSavile @BenRubinstein #litchat then perhaps you mean worthy of being considered part of literary cannon? Strikes me as a different to literature
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Huh? You said if it was commercial it wasn’t literature. What did you mean, then? #litchat
deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy We love what we do. So do our readers. So does our publisher. And most reviewers. What else could a girl want? #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Don’t understand, why does viewing a book as in a genre prevent you from appreciating melodrama? Shakespeare had genres #litchat
DocClef @StevenSavile in the set of ‘noncommercial’ tends to be self-indulgent, but soulful. There are certainly self-indulgent in commerce #litchat
susanmpls @mcvane back to the trust thing. w/ novelist you get bias which can reveal feelings, thoughts, POV a journalist can’t/won’t say. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @deberryandgrant that’s so wonderful. I hope one day I can say that too πŸ™‚ #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Calling something a “thriller” or “detective fiction” has 0 to do with lit/commercial distinction. #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy It’s a shame the quote doesn’t fit into 140 characters. Every thriller/writer I know would RT it! πŸ™‚ #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein What’s the distinction then? #litchat
DocClef So this whole commerce vs. art discussion has been a grave misunderstanding? #litchat
WordNerdArmy rt @susanmpls … w/ novelist you get bias which can reveal feelings, thoughts, POV a journalist can’t/won’t say #litchat
deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy I hope you can too! Wish you great writing vibes and much success. πŸ™‚ #litchat
StevenSavile if you aren’t indulging yourself and your soul when you put pen to paper what are you doing? I write little pieces of me #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Indeed Shakespeare did. Eliot was arguing that great writers of the past used melodrama, but… #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Yes but thrillers, highbrow, detective fiction can be either commercial or lit. Lit/Commercial doesn’t identify genre #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns don’t doubt that for a second – it’s commercial in that way πŸ™‚ #litchat
BenRubinstein @StevenSavile Not at all. The “lit” in lit/com dichotomy means exactly that it could be put in a literary cannon. #litchat
jeremyduns That in the 20thC, works that used melodrama were largely looked down on, seen as ‘low-brow’ – leading to a lot of dull works. #litchat
agnieszkasshoes @deberryandgrant wonderful. I might just sign up. πŸ™‚ #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns – read some of the work that sweeping statement purports to speak of then tell me all the subtle hues are melodrama #litchat
DocClef @BenRubinstein so what makes something literary? Certainly Sherlock Holmes and On the Road were commercial successes as well as #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein My point has been that ‘commercial’ is misleading for that side of things. Literary fiction also in shops! #litchat
kbeninato Clopular? @WordNerdArmy Am writing an article about literary v commercial. I’m calling it ‘would you rather be clever or popular?’ #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Really? The Fountainhead was melodrama to the MAX, pure 20th lit. #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Not all would see it that way. Many view thrillers as ‘beach reads’ incapable of being literature. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns plus – if it’s perennial then it’s not historic. It’s current. #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Actually, The Fountainhead is great example of lit that was very popular. #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein All generalisations have exceptions. πŸ™‚ But harder to be taken seriously with melodrama now than in Shakey’s day. #litchat
deberryandgrant @agnieszkasshoes We just this afternoon got an email from reader who had created a slideshow about our last novel for her bk club! #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns Dull poetry, too, owing to looking down on communicating with the reader in a comprehensible fashion. #litchat
DocClef @StevenSavile case in point. RT @DocClef @DocClef all I write is self-indulgent!All I write is self-indulgent! #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein So it was commercial fiction then, wasn’t it? It sold very well. See the problem in the term? #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Stieg Larson wrote literary thrillers b/c have themes exposing 21st cent chauvinism/ social issues #litchat
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy I didn’t follow that – what work, what hues? #litchat
WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns – have you even read Shakespeare? He’s rather too skilled to be brushed aside as melodramatic #litchat
BenRubinstein @jeremyduns I say the term holds. Only time it falls apart is in cases of VERY GOOD titles, that are both. 5% of titles are obth. #litchat
deberryandgrant Must dash! It’s been swell as usual. See you next time… #litchat
BenRubinstein @WordNerdArmy I disagree! Although I think Shake had some works more commercial than others (The Tempest) #litchat
agnieszkasshoes RT @deberryandgrant We just got an email from reader who had created a slideshow about our last novel for her bk club! #litchat [so cool!]
jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy I’ve read Shakespare. I wasn’t brushing him aside as that. I am defending melodrama, which is 1 element in his work. #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @WordNerdArmy That depends on your considering melodrama a perjorative term. #litchat
BenRubinstein Must go too guys, thanks very much for this excellent discussion! #litchat
DocClef @deberryandgrant thanks for clearing this all up, sorry for the OT-ness. Later. #litchat
ub3Herrick @mciddangelo #litchat #writechat They’re always lurking, waiting for you to make yourself visible so they can POUNCE!
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Not read him (must be the last person in Sweden not to!), but where’s your lit/comm opposites? You say he’s both. #litchat
WordNerdArmy @BenRubinstein you disagree? You would brush his work aside? Wow. You surprise me πŸ™‚ #litchat
mciddangelo sorry, I was away. Did anything exciting happen? #litchat
StevenSavile @BenRubinstein Hang on, the quality of language in Larson’s Girl series is absolutely plain, so the issues make it literary? #litchat
WordNerdArmy righto – got to dash. Great chat πŸ™‚ #litchat
kbeninato @MargaretAtwood is both literary and popular, and her new book tour will include a full theatrical production http://bit.ly/11WcXS #litchat
StevenSavile @jeremyduns even Larson’s editor described it as a beach book heh #litchat
jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Subjective, but I can think of many commercial thrillers that qualify as literature. #litchat
JSColley @deberryandgrant Sorry I didn’t respond earlier, life gets in the way. – And yes, the industry does. Lit can be commercial also #litchat
ashantyvicite @MCidDAngelo Oh, nothing. I just won the Pulitzer. *grins* #litchat
JSColley RT @deberryandgrant: @JSColley Mine as well. Loved it. #litchat Did I mention I cried when I heard Clavell passed away. Sappy but true!
George9Writer Great #litchat, all of you. Possible topic for next time: “How Can You Tell When You’ve Gone Too Far in Fiction?” #litchat
DocClef Well I need to head out. It’s been a pleasure, and as this internet tends to prove, honed my perspective. #litchat
JSColley Night all! #litchat
jeremyduns @George9Writer Thought you were going to say ‘Taken #litchat too far off-topic’! Sorry about that. It was @StevenSavile’s fault.
Nobilis @George9Writer #litchat I agree, that would be a great topic. My mentor says, “When you feel like you’ve gone too far, keep going.”
George9Writer @jeremyduns No, not at all – this whole Literary vs Commercial conundrum is one of my favorites #litchat
George9Writer @Nobilis I’ve been working in that very same spirit #litchat
jeremyduns @George9Writer I’m frustrated it’s still an issue. Why is the protagonist’s profession indicative of a novel’s worth? #litchat
JadoreBrittanie I’m late. What’s the topic?? I’m missing my nap for #litchat
George9Writer @JSColley You go to bed this early? Jeez! Gonna go read Nobody Move? #litchat
deberryandgrant @JSColley Sappy is OK–good in fact! #litchat
George9Writer @jeremyduns I don’t get it – please explain ‘protagonist’s profession’ in ref to literary, commercial #litchat
Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns It isn’t, to me. #litchat
jeremyduns @George9Writer If the protagonist is a novelist, say, it’s ‘literary’ = worthy. He’s a detective? It’s ‘commercial’. Often. Still. #litchat
StevenSavile @George9Writer @jeremyduns he blames me? All I did was say I was a hack πŸ™‚ #litchat
AndreaGardner RT @MCidDAngelo: sorry, I was away. Did anything exciting happen? #litchat -haha! Did u go into hiding after you poked the beast?
jeremyduns @StevenSavile Anyone who can write the line ‘Judas wept’ is not a hack. πŸ™‚ #litchat
Iapetus999 What NOT to Blog About as a #Writer http://awe.sm/18la #novel #litchat
George9Writer @AndreaGardner For a good time, call Cid “Captain Baha” #litchat
StevenSavile @jeremyduns heh and yet it pays the bills. How odd πŸ™‚ #litchat
George9Writer @jeremyduns Interestingly, you see detectives now in crossover lit-commercial fiction … to me, it’s all about writing quality #litchat
jeremyduns @George9Writer Yes, me too. But the distinction is still there. The term ‘cross-over’ refers to it. #litchat
George9Writer @StevenSavile More power to you if you’re published and happy about it … you might still write a Big Lit novel #litchat
jeremyduns @George9Writer Maybe he has, but it had a detective in it? Or a vampire, spy, etc. Like Dickens, etc. #litchat
rossb54 RT @danish_novelist: U only get satisfaction as a writer when U write from yr heart, not from yr wallet… #litchat Try http://bit.ly/BAWuI
jeremyduns @George9Writer But you were joking, of course. I hope. πŸ™‚ #litchat
StevenSavile @George9Writer @jeremyduns #litchat (keep forgetting the tag) hah nice one J. But no ‘great lit’ yet… maybe one day.
George9Writer @jeremyduns About the detective-like influence? Not joking: Paul Auster, Wm T Vollmann, 2666 #litchat
jeremyduns TS Eliot on melodrama: http://bit.ly/irapm #litchat
jeremyduns @George9Writer No, about the possibility of someone who pays the bills through writing managing a ‘big lit’ novel. Maybe he has! #litchat
George9Writer @MCidDAngelo Sorry Captain. But don’t be surprised if you have a mysterious new nickname… #litchat
FoundingEditor Great #news #litchat #writegoal – My #poetry will be included in the Fall issues of “The Smoking Poet” “Long Story Short” “Ribbons”….
George9Writer @StevenSavile @jeremyduns Big Lit been known to happen, though sometimes we have to wait till after we’re dead #litchat
FoundingEditor #litchat #writegoal – My #poetry included in the Fall issues of “Wisteria”, “Modern Haiku” “Simply Haiku (now online)” & “Chrysanthemum”
George9Writer @StevenSavile @jeremyduns Big Lit been known to happen, though sometimes we have to wait till after we’re dead #litchat
jeremyduns @George9Writer Yep. Dickens a case in point. #litchat


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