06-12-09 Nonfiction, open chat
The transcript below covers the complete #litchat conversation on June 12, 2009. The order appears sequentially from the first post to the final post. Topic was open discussion of Nonfiction for Education and Entertainment. For more LitChat discussion, be sure to search Twitter using the #litchat hashtag.
| LitChat Welcome to LitChat. We’re concluding our discussion, Nonfiction to Educate and Entertain. Please join us and introduce yourself. #litchat -1:01 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots #litchat I’m a web producer and book blogger. My favorite non fiction is Cats Are Not Peas (it’s about calico cat genetics) -1:02 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| alexisgrant Hey all… I’m a journalist, lover of nonfiction, writing a travel memoir. #litchat -1:03 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs I’mjust a reader who likes to talk about books #litchat -1:03 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb I’m an author of children’s nonfiction, mostly science books and a blogger on Interesting Nonfiction for Kids. INK. #litchat -1:04 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns Hi there. I’m a British spy novelist who reads a lot of non-fiction about the Cold War. #litchat -1:05 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen hi i m 37 support worker working with learnin disablities avid reader and just startin blogging #litchat -1:05 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit Hi, I’m a fic writer and avid, eclectic reader #litchat -1:05 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites Hi all, I’ve written three nonfiction books, 2 gardening/horticulture, 1 mental health. Now focusing on poetry and fiction. #litchat -1:05 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood Hi. I write fiction and nonfiction. No books yet. I read a lot. #litchat -1:06 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen read books on history and bios from time to time #litchat -1:06 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots @vickicobb #litchat I see some of your titles that my son would love. 😀 -1:07 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| marklewis1963 You’re in the same boat I am. 🙂 RT @Mer_Blackwood Hi. I write fiction and nonfiction. No books yet. I read a lot. #litchat -1:07 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| hermitpaul @kimnelsonwrites Mental health? That’s an area I’m very interested in. Could you point me to a link or elaborate a little, please? #litchat -1:08 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb pussreboots Have him checkout the We Dare You! videos I’ve posted on my site: http://www.vickicobb.com #litchat -1:08 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| LitChat Q1 How much of your nonfiction is to 1) education (learning) and how much is for entertainment (laughing)? #litchat -1:10 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @LitChat most of mine is learning either for pleasure or work #litchat -1:11 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks Q1 most of non-fiction consumed for education. trying to get various historical perspectives on the same period/event. #litchat -1:11 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen q1 depends what book your after #litchat -1:11 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood My nonfiction reading is overwhelmingly for learning. I do a lot of research. #litchat -1:12 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| doart @LitChat at this point in my life, most of what I choose to read is for entertainment! #litchat -1:12 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| hermitpaul @LitChat I use non-fiction almost entirely for educational purposes; fiction gives me enough ideas & images to research myself. #litchat -1:12 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb I write to create a good read. Flow, intense involvement is entertainment and leads to the best kind of learning. #litchat -1:12 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites #litchat I like these sessions because I connect (follow and be followed) with other writers and poets. Great network-growth opportunity. -1:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @insidebooks much of my nf not for work is historical perspectives eg letters alsolike forgotten voices range of books #litchat -1:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen most my non fiction readin is for pleasure apart from work #litchat -1:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass @VanessaDobbs Voracious and smart reader that you are, you are every writer’s dream reader. #litchat -1:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites @LitChat Mine are all educational, although I like to think good writing/good reading, not humorous. #litchat -1:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb This is my first time at this. Trying to get the hang of it. #litchat -1:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls all my non-work NF is for entertainment. sometimes it happens to educate me 🙂 #litchat -1:14 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @CarolyBurnsBass why thank you ma’am #litchat -1:14 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots #litchat I like to learn from all the books I read (even fiction). Learning stuff is entertainment to me. -1:16 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns Something I’ve become fussier about when reading non-fiction is sources – I need to see the sources! #litchat -1:16 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| zumayabooks For me, education IS entertainment. I love learning new stuff. #litchat -1:16 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites RT @jeremyduns Something I’ve become fussier about when reading non-fiction is sources – I need to see the sources! #litchat I SO AGREE! -1:17 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots RT @zumayabooks For me, education IS entertainment. I love learning new stuff. #litchat (Me too) -1:18 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @pussreboots I would agree with that #litchat -1:18 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns So as a reader, I prioritise learning. If the non-fiction is wrong, I’d rather read fiction. Then I look for good clear writing. #litchat -1:18 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| charliechap I will seriously read almost ANYTHING. Even user manuals!!! 8D #litchat -1:18 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks sorry never remember to intro. An avid reader of non-fiction but with a passion for history #litchat -1:18 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae I’m a writer of both fic /non fic & addicted to reading history, folklore, mythology, anthropology, egyptology #litchat -1:18 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen love schotts almanac full facts and figures jove history books on subjects i m interested in #litchat -1:18 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dediaf @jeremyduns Why fussier? What has changed for you? And what do you think of sourcing via links? #litchat -1:19 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots RT @charliechap I will seriously read almost ANYTHING. Even user manuals!!! 8D #litchat (I’ve done that too!) -1:19 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks @VanessaDobbs did you ever read the WWI books by Lyn Macdonald they are very good using letters. #litchat -1:19 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| LitChat Q2 When reading for education, how much value do you place on the qualification of authors? #litchat -1:19 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites & as much as I use the net, only scholarly or research-related websites are appropriate online references. MUST be verifiable. #litchat -1:19 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites @charliechap I like your attitude! #litchat -1:20 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns In the field of nf I mostly read – on espionage – there has been a lot of sensationalism. So I need to trust the author completely. #litchat -1:20 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen @insidebooks @vanessadobbs the mitford sister letters is a good book on my tbr pile #litchat -1:20 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb I place high value on it. You can’t write clearly about concepts without being fluent in the subject. #litchat -1:21 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @insidebooks I’ve read one and now have others to be read.Like the WW1 periodas never studied it at school esp hist of nursing #litchat -1:21 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| zumayabooks Qualifications are vital, but so is a readable writing style. There’s no need to be stuffy. #litchat -1:21 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae @kimnelsonwrites I would think that most legitmate websites would cite their hard copy references. #litchat -1:21 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @kimnelsonwrites And primary! I find authors often quote others’ footnotes. I want the direct source to have been read! Fussy? 🙂 #litchat -1:21 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @stujallen and on mine #litchat -1:22 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites Q2…value do you place on the qualification of authors? #litchat I want verifable, authenticated material, not self-proclaimed experts. -1:22 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood Not all that much to academic qualifications. A lot of attention to probable accuracy and to clarity. #litchat -1:22 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen q2 some times important passion is important too thou i feel #litchat -1:23 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @kimnelsonwrites Q2 likethe author to be qualified to write abt subject for credibility #litchat -1:23 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @VanessaDobbs bet you’ve already read the Maisie Dobbs novels, huh? WWI nurse turned private investigator… #litchat -1:23 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb In my hands-on science books, I give my readers the tools so that they can see for themselves. That’s how science works. #litchat -1:23 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| charliechap @litchat It depends. If it deals with people, a lot. If it deals with science, not a lot. #litchat -1:23 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites @fannyfae Yes. I’m also referring to traditional publication. I was asked to vet a ms. ALL refs. were indiv. websites. Not OK #litchat -1:24 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns On Q2 qualifications can be important, but can also be deceiving. Sources and the use of them are the best test for me. #litchat -1:24 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @susanmpls no will put on tbr list #litchat -1:24 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites @VanessaDobbs YES! #litchat -1:24 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood I’ve seen unreliable accounts in allegedly qualified sources. So I don’t trust qualification per se. #litchat -1:25 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood What @jeremyduns said. #litchat -1:25 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae It depends upon the subject matter being written about. Some should have creds while in other fields such things are exp or theory #litchat -1:25 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @Mer_Blackwood I agree. #litchat -1:25 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks Q2 sometimes the author can be really biased so you need to keep an open mind. Try to read more than one view if possible. #litchat -1:25 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @fannyfae As long as it’s supported by solid research #litchat -1:26 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots #litchat I don’t trust any book that doesn’t cite its sources. Give me a bibliography, footnotes or endnotes! -1:26 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen @insidebooks yeah certain historians !! #litchat -1:26 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dediaf The more I learned about the subject the more I saw how writers fudged sources. Sent me off track. #litchat -1:26 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @pussreboots Bibliography is essential, IMO #litchat -1:27 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| charliechap I only use Wikipedia when I need to know the absolute truth (giggles) 😉 #litchat -1:27 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae I ‘ve noticed in some scholarship circles that whatever the pet theory of the author is, that is how the data gets manipulated. #litchat -1:27 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dediaf Sourcing via links – how long will that url last? Do I need to subscribe? Has the article been edited in the meantime? #litchat -1:27 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @fannyfae Read about quantum physics a few months ago. Definitely biased altho fascinating #litchat -1:28 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls #litchat nice thing w/ dig pub’ing is that sources, data sets, etc. that don’t make a NF bk can be put on web, offering more info to rdr. -1:28 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass Q1 A favorite nonfic is 1879 HOUSEKEEPING IN OLD VIRGINIA; laugh and learn. Things like butchering chickens to remedy for diahrrea. #litchat -1:29 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae Not a Wiki fan. Ive corrected entries with verifi able refs, only to have it switched back. I think there is a lot of ego flailing #litchat -1:29 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb Q2 I always have my books vetted by experts. Kids are not interested in sources. But I have to be accurate. #litchat -1:29 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks @stujallen Once went to an event where Anthony Beevor laid into fellow historians saying they had no idea of the military or pain. #litchat -1:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| charliechap @fannyfae I was joking =) #litchat -1:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns I generally dislike non-fiction having a clear agenda – I want to get as close to ‘the truth’ as possible. #litchat -1:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites RT @ fannyfae Not a Wiki fan. Ive corrected entries with verifiable refs…to have it switched back. #litchat I’ve heard this repeatedly. -1:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen @insidebooks sounds like him #litchat -1:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae @CarolyBurnsBass omg! I used to have that book! I miss it terribly. #litchat -1:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass YES! RT @fannyfae in some scholarship circles that whatever the pet theory of the author is, that is how the data gets manipulated. #litchat -1:31 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls #litchat Authority is big problem in the Google age; pub’s imprimatuer can lend credibilty to an author. -1:32 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| kimnelsonwrites I’m out. Looking forward to next time.#litchat -1:32 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mhictire RT @fannyfae Not a Wiki fan. Ive corr’d ent’s w/verif refs, only 2 have it switched back. I think there is a lot of ego flailing #litchat -1:32 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dediaf @jeremyduns Semantic web & devt’s should make it easier to link to verifiable srces. Wondering how ppl feel abt links & narrtv flow #litchat -1:32 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| MAWJones RT @kimnelsonwrites: only scholarly or research-related websites are appropriate online references. MUST be verifiable. #litchat -1:32 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF I don’t mind if non-fiction has an agenda as long as they are properly foot noted, etc., so I can check for myself. #litchat -1:33 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns I worked as a journalist/editor for several years. A common problem in scientific articles is cherry-picked citations. #litchat -1:33 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @insidebooks Funny! What had they said/done? #litchat -1:33 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass @fannyfae Just let me know if you need a 1879 housekeeping reference. I’ll source it for you. #litchat -1:34 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls But for how long will the info stay there? What if I buy the book in a decade? #litchat -1:34 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots @ jeremyduns #litchat An agenda free nonfiction is a very rare breed. -1:34 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks @jeremyduns it was a fellow historian who done an anthology of pain and he said she didn’t know the first thing about it. #litchat -1:35 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dediaf @susanmpls Exactly. I think srcng will get easier. Q: but how does that affect how one presents overall narrative? Integrate links? #litchat -1:35 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @SighWTF What if you check and find the author has totally misrepresented what happened? I give up the book! 🙂 #litchat -1:35 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @pussreboots Isn’t that logical, though? Writing non-fiction starts with a goal in mind. #litchat -1:35 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @jeremyduns Depends. if data/etc. is on a university’s web, it will stay indefinitely–U’s are big on digital archiving. #litchat -1:35 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen press tends too blow out of proption some non fic for dramatic purpose #litchat -1:35 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb There’s an interesting blog today about fact checkers: http://inkrethink.blogspot.com/ #litchat -1:36 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF A decade?! That would like model-T era in this day and age. But you have a point. How do you keep track of dead links? #litchat -1:36 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| zumayabooks Press also assigns unqualified reporters to cover technical subjects about which they are clueless. #litchat -1:36 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood @dediaf For online writing, I integrate links. I think I’d probably put them in a resource block in print. #litchat -1:37 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dediaf I think links can be disruptive and are often exclusive. What about people without the net? I bought this book so tell me. #litchat -1:37 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @dediaf Dunno. at least, don’t know yet. U Minn’s lib has program called EthicShare (funded by Mellon) that’s trying to do this. #litchat -1:37 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| charliechap IMO, people, by nature, seek out info that supports their “world view”. ZI often read opposing books on subjects. #litchat -1:37 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae @CarolyBurnsBass Thank you ! I ‘ll take you up on that. Am writing a fic for that time period. Now, to find 1 for 17th cen #litchat -1:37 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| LitChat Q3 What has been the most influential nonfic book(s) in your life? #litchat -1:37 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots @mdbenoit Of course it’s logical. #litchat -1:37 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF I like to remember Paul Ehrlich and his “Population Bomb.” That was a book totally blown out of proportion. #litchat -1:38 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @jeremyduns If it’s .pdf format, sources and bibliography can go in hyperlinks. Works for me. #litchat -1:38 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @pussreboots I meant logical that it would be biased. #litchat -1:38 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF Q3 Thomas Sowell’s books on economics. #litchat -1:38 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots @LitChat #litchat most influential would probably be the various O’Reily books on web technology -1:38 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls Every university equally? How about in Africa or Asia? I’d rather the book gave all I needed without any such risks. #litchat -1:39 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots #litchat but my favorite purely entertainment one is Cats Are Not Peas. -1:39 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| vickicobb Q3 On Writing Well, by Willian Zinnser. Good writing is clear thinking. #litchat -1:39 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen q3 schama history of britain well written and fairly unbiase #litchat -1:39 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| field_work Q3: Most influenc. NF book: The Diary of Anne Frank when I was 8. Made me decide I wanted to write. Here I am, MFA student. 🙂 #litchat -1:39 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots @mdbenoit And I was agree with you re the bias in nonfiction. #litchat. -1:40 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| HyattBass Adrian Nicole LeBlanc’s RANDOM FAMILY. Incredible. RT @LitChat Q3 What has been the most influential nonfic book(s) in your life? #litchat -1:40 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| charliechap @litchat A Step Farther Out by Jerry Pournelle is one. #litchat -1:40 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @zumayabooks True! That’s long been a problem. In nf books, also a lot of repetition/plagiarism for this reason. #litchat -1:40 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood If you except my parents’ holy book, I’m not sure. #litchat -1:40 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @pussreboots LOL. Thanks! #litchat -1:40 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @jeremyduns #litchat Sites like JSTOR are committed to both online and phys. archiving and are starting to take on primary source collection -1:41 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs Q3 letters from a lost generation #litchat -1:41 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns Q3 The Nigerian Civil War by John de St Jorre. A superb piece of journalism that opened my mind and inspired my first novel. #litchat -1:41 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae How can I pick a favourite? Have worn out 2 copies of “History of Private Life: Vol 3: Passions of the Renaissance”. #litchat -1:41 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks Q3. Although it was both book and TV the World at War series really planted a love of history in me when younger. #litchat -1:42 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @jeremyduns I’m not suggesting online source in lieu of end notes, rather using online to enhance and offer addt’l data #litchat -1:42 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit Favorite non-fic book: The Professor and the Madman (about writing the Oxford Dictionary) #litchat -1:42 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots @mdbenoit #litchat I took a couple college courses on nonfiction (film / tv) but books have similar issues w/ bias. -1:42 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen @insidebooks great book and program #litchat -1:43 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls OK. But I always worry that the crucial stuff is in that additional material! 🙂 And JSTOR costs, no? I bought the book. #litchat -1:43 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots @MissLiberty I ADORE that book. Have read it many times. #litchat So glad to see it back in print. -1:44 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen @jeremyduns sounds interesting read dispaches by herr #litchat -1:44 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood Maybe the nonfiction with the greatest influence is something I haven’t even read, that created unquestioned common assumptions. #litchat -1:44 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @mdbenoit If I’m reading online, fine. But in a physical book, I want to have every source listed so I can look it up and check. #litchat -1:45 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dediaf @susanmpls Also thinking abt journalism discussions–possib of visual displays of data lead to rethinking overall narr presentation #litchat -1:45 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @jeremyduns Hyperlinks in a paper book? Nope. Agree with you. #litchat -1:45 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @stujallen Keep meaning to – have heard good things. I just tend to have very specific research goals in mind. #litchat -1:46 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @jeremyduns I agree need sources listed #litchat -1:46 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| ClearForesight @LitChat “Conversations with God”, “The Power of Now”, “Ask and it is Given” answer to Q3 #litchat. Each book altered my perspective. -1:47 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @mdbenoit Not hyperlinks, obviously! But I often see web-only articles listed as sources. I’d rather ones I can always get to. #litchat -1:47 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @dediaf think that’s one of probs w/newspapers in digital age. how to change thinking to include data & source mat’l in stories #litchat -1:47 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| charliechap @mer_blackwood I tend to agree. #litchat -1:47 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass Marshall McLuhan’s MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE and his essays about the global village (early term for “flat world”) very influential. #litchat -1:48 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae @jeremyduns I would agree. All refs, online or off need to be cited. And I absolutely do check them if I use it in my own work. #litchat -1:48 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @jeremyduns Sorry, I meant URLs, web addresses. #litchat -1:48 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| zumayabooks Decline and Fall of Practically Everybody by Will Cuppy. History was never so palatable, or so funny. #litchat -1:48 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dediaf True. And I’ll contradict myself and say I often find journalism needs more of an agenda. Often just a vox pop: pointless. #litchat -1:48 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks noticed some authors now putting an extended bibliography online. But will readers really go and check that? Wonder. #litchat -1:49 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dediaf @susanmpls And as thinking changes for shorter length nf material, it will change for books/longform nf material (or so I’d think) #litchat -1:49 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood @zumayabooks Oh, I read that! I like How to Become Extinct, too. #litchat -1:50 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @insidebooks wondering is most readers check sources anyway? #litchat -1:50 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls Ironically, I buy books online but live miles from a library. I prefer nf books to be ‘self-contained’ – but hey. 🙂 #litchat -1:50 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls #litchat Most influential NF book? Umm, the dictionary? j/k Diff. bks most influential at diff parts of life. -1:50 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie From the point of view of a translator of lit, refs & citations are crucial. Need to read all background before translating book. #litchat -1:51 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks @mdbenoit Good point. I do if I want to read more then I look to see what sources are most quoted and hunt them out. #litchat -1:51 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @dosankodebbie wow. Never thought of that. Lots of work! #litchat -1:51 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @insidebooks #litchat depends on what the reader is using book for. personal interest? to build something? work? that will drive web usage -1:51 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @mdbenoit depends what I’m reading about always doif something for work #litchat -1:52 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae I saw WSJ go from being a fairly decent paper with interesting articles to being sound-bite type of pub. #litchat -1:52 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs Sources can give ideas of what toread if you want to read more #litchat -1:53 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass Q3 Another influential book to me is the classic Strunk & White THE ELEMENTS OF STYLE. Still have my original HS copy. #litchat -1:54 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @mdbenoit Probably not, but I do! And in my experience it’s only once you do that you find the value of the book. #litchat -1:54 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| nicole_miller @LitChat “Good Calories, Bad Calories” #litchat -1:55 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| pussreboots RT @VanessaDobbs Sources can give ideas of what toread if you want to read more #litchat Absolutely! -1:55 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @jeremyduns It’s certainly important if you want to have more than one POV about the topic #litchat -1:55 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie Totally agree. RT @VanessaDobbs: Sources can give ideas of what toread if you want to read more #litchat -1:56 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @mdbenoit Or simply to check that a quote was fairly used, for instance. I often find not, even with Pulitzer winners. #litchat -1:57 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @fannyfae Don’t know about that paper, but I have noticed a shift towards ‘Let’s ask 10 experts and call it an article’. No meat. #litchat -1:58 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| nicole_miller @LitChat Q2. I’ll look more at the benefit to the authors (as motive) more than their qualifications. “Experts” are often wrong. #litchat -1:58 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit @jeremyduns I’d say that might be prevalent with political non-fic #litchat -1:59 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit Re. verifying sources: Context is everything #litchat -2:00 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs RT @mdbenoit: @jeremyduns I’d say that might be prevalent with political non-fic #litchat Iagree -2:00 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @nicole_miller I agree that author’s motive is an important factor to remember when reading a book, esp non-fiction. (Q2) #litchat -2:00 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @VanessaDobbs Yes. But even a travel book can be biased. #litchat -2:02 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie Q3, a book that changed the way I read books is Asking the Right Questions by Browne & Keely #litchat -2:02 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @mdbenoit YES things taken out of context= misinterpretation /bias #litchat -2:03 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae @jeremyduns I know. WS once turned me on to a fabulous ref on Elizabethan history, and now its just not the same. Sad really. #litchat -2:04 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie Totally agree. Every book has bias. @jeremyduns @VanessaDobbs Yes. But even a travel book can be biased. #litchat -2:04 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls 1st nf bk I remember owning was a BetterHomes and Gardens ckbk for kids (got when I was seven) and I still make killer caramel corn #litchat -2:05 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns Not to get too pretentious 🙂 but isn’t the double negative ‘non-fiction’ an acknowledgement – it’s not Fact or The Truth. #litchat -2:05 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @jeremyduns yes depends on authors POV & agenda #litchat -2:05 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns Absolutely. RT@mdbenoit: Re. verifying sources: Context is everything #litchat -2:06 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass RT @jeremyduns Not to get too pretentious:) but isn’t double negative ‘non-fiction’ an acknowledgement – it’s not Fact or The Truth #litchat -2:07 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| mdbenoit I’m signing off. Have a great w/e all! #litchat -2:08 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass As a travel writer, I would find it hard not to write without bias. I’m giving my impressions of where I went, ate, experienced. #litchat -2:09 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls Maybe. But there are many barriers to a utopian digital info-pool: language, poverty, geography, cultural differences. #litchat -2:09 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Mer_Blackwood Interesting chat. Bye, everyone. #litchat -2:09 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @susanmpls my first nf bks were Ladybird books #litchat -2:09 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| LitChat We’ve gone over our official 1-hr chat time, but feel free to continue the discussion. I’m learning and laughing today. #litchat -2:09 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @CarolyBurnsBass people read travel books for the writer’s experiences surely #litchat -2:10 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| stujallen @LitChat bye all #litchat -2:10 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Trishryan Peggy Orenstein’s Waiting For Daisy @LitChatQ3 What has been the most influential nonfic book(s) in your life? #litchat -2:10 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| CarolyBurnsBass My first nonfic book was a compendium from THE AMERICAN PEOPLE’S ENCYCLOPEDIA, which my father used as a sales sample. Loved it. #litchat -2:11 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @jeremyduns There are foundations out there trying to bring digi info-pool to all socio-econ geographies (Africa, SE Asia, etc) #litchat -2:11 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Trishryan Traveling Mercies by Anne Lamott @LitChatQ3 What has been the most influential nonfic book(s) in your life? #litchat -2:11 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| insidebooks cheerio everyone in lit chat #litchat -2:12 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @jeremyduns which isn’t to say they are succeeding yet, but there are programs. abut not all can read, either. print or online #litchat -2:12 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs Bye to all.Thanks for the chat #litchat -2:12 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @CarolyBurnsBass Bias is inevitable, acceptable, and even good (flavors the book). But readers need to recognize it’s there #litchat -2:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| George9Writer Another great #litchat! Thanks to all writers and readers! -2:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @VanessaDobbs what are ladybird books? #litchat used to buy tons and tons of bks from my scholastic book club as kiddo. -2:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls Didn’t know that – good to hear! Wonder how long that might take. #litchat -2:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| Rororosie What has been the most influential nonfic book(s) in your life? #litchat – The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron -2:13 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie Good points – but who admits their own bias? It’s often hard for readers to spot – often in the use of sources. #litchat -2:15 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @susanmpls they arevery small books ona wide range of subjects pocket money priced 12.5p whenIwaas a kid, remember India, composers #litchat -2:16 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dediaf @susanmpls @jeremyduns And may just succeed in getting dig resources to places where it’s been imposs to get libraries of books #litchat -2:17 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @jeremyduns JSTOR and MUSE offer low price/free subscripts to libs. in poor countries. Free in Africa. cheap in east. europe. #litchat -2:17 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs @susanmpls kings and queens, professions, #litchat -2:17 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @VanessaDobbs I read lots of the DK version of those to my kiddo. #litchat -2:18 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls Fantastic and wonderful to learn, but until we get anywhere near there I’d rather books sourced books! 🙂 #litchat -2:19 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae YES!! RT @Rororosie: What has been the most influential nonfic book(s) in your life? “The Artist’s Way “by Julia Cameron #litchat -2:19 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @dediaf that’s the hope! It’s nice for us (a Univ. Press) b/c scholars world-wide can access our stuff #litchat -2:19 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @jeremyduns it’s not the job of the writer to admit bias. Bias just “is.” It’s the reader’s job to discern and glean #litchat -2:20 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF @dosankodebbie RE Bias. Which is a reason to teach critical reading skills starting at a young age! #litchat -2:21 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls is it a bad thing that I often prefer my NF as a documentary on the Hist. channel? #litchat -2:22 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie So it’s the readers’ job to figure out how the author twisted quotes/sources to fit an agenda? Hmmm. #litchat -2:23 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| VanessaDobbs RT @SighWTF: @dosankodebbie RE Bias. Which is a reason to teach critical reading skills starting at a young age! #litchat Iagree -2:23 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @SighWTF Which is why I recommend Asking the Right Questions by Browne and Keely. Easy to understand. Become a discerning reader! #litchat -2:23 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @jeremyduns Yes, it’s ultimately the reader’s job to figure out if the sources have been twisted! #litchat -2:25 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls No, I think film can add tons. But docs can also be much more superficial – and dodgy sources harder to spot! 🙂 #litchat -2:25 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie I think it’s the writer’s job not to twist them. Personal opinion’s one thing, but quotes out of context, etc? #litchat -2:27 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae If someone has conducted lazy scholarship, do you write to them , or refute them in a piece that runs counter to their argument? #litchat -2:27 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF @dosankodebbie Dang. Missed that. The irony is killing me. Not much of a discerning reader today! #litchat (Forgot the hashtag) -2:28 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns It’s not that I’m obsessed with sources, but I find many non-fiction authors are adept at hiding what they’ve done in them. #litchat -2:28 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns In certain fields, I can recognise signs of clever fiddling of sources. n others, I can’t. #litchat -2:29 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae @susanmpls Just be sure to take anything on Hist Ch featuring Zahi Hawass with a block of salt! #litchat -2:29 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie And this sometimes means the writer would have to know more about the subject than the author. #litchat -2:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @fannyfae is that the naked archaeologist show? that’s more entertainment than face, IMO. #litchat -2:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF @jeremyduns Global warming books and articles particularly drive me nuts looking for references and trying to avoid the bias.#litchat -2:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @fannyfae is that the naked archaeologist show? that’s more entertainment than fact, IMO. #litchat -2:30 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @fannyfae I tend not to buy more of their books! If it was especially heinous I might try to counter. Myths can be hard to dispell. #litchat -2:31 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae @susanmpls No he’s the Dir Gen of Antiq. in Egypt. He is definitely biased and definitely “something else!” #litchat -2:32 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @jeremyduns I agree the writer should try not to twist, but bias means writers often don’t realize, right? #litchat -2:32 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie True. But as I read a lot about espionage, the bias is often propaganda. #litchat -2:34 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @jeremyduns Assuring the book is reviewed by other (not necessarily sympathetic) experts before publication would help. #litchat -2:35 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @NUVaughn non fiction, my dear. writers, readers, and publishers discuss bks MWF from 4-5 EST using hashtag #litchat Today is non-fiction. -2:38 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie Agreed, but it can be hard to find reviewers who don’t have agendas, too. Sources speak for themselves. #litchat -2:39 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @jeremyduns Ahh, any non-idiot reader understands espionage is a biased subject, don’t you think? no problem there. #litchat -2:40 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @jeremyduns Re: reviewers have agendas too. Yeah I see what you mean. And readers tend to read what they want to hear. #litchat -2:42 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF Remember when you read text books like they were gospel? #litchat -2:44 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie Major problems! *How* biased, which parts are possibly untrue, who exactly gains from the book? Etc. #litchat -2:45 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @SighWTF Nostalgically! 🙂 #litchat -2:46 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie There are bad readers as well as bad writers. #litchat -2:46 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @SighWTF Oh wow. textbooks are a great example of hidden bias! You should see the history texts Japanese kids read in school. #litchat -2:47 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF Reminds me of How to Read Literature Like a College Professor. Never realized what a lazy reader I was~! #litchat -2:49 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @jeremyduns I’ve always thought readers need training to become discerning readers. #litchat -2:50 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF I @dosankodebbie. I know! My dad had textbooks that were incredibly derogatory growing up. Amazing. #litchat -2:50 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls .@dosankodebbie: @jeremyduns I Ever read Umberto Eco’s The Role of the Reader? #litchat -2:51 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF I think it was “The Long Tail” that talked about the differences between Wikipedia and Britannica. Fascinating. #litchat -2:52 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @susanmpls No I haven’t read The Role of the Reader. I guess you recommend it? I’ll check it out. #litchat -2:53 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF But I do miss the feeling that it has to be true, it says so in my textbook! #litchat -2:53 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls No – might have to look that up! #litchat -2:56 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| jeremyduns @dosankodebbie That’s called school, no? 🙂 #litchat -2:58 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| susanmpls @jeremyduns heh. any book that requires an open dictionary isn’t bedtime reading for me. early evening, maybe. #litchat -2:59 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie @jeremyduns School taught me to write, but not to be a discerning reader. In an ideal world it would have. #litchat -3:01 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| dosankodebbie Well, I’ve gotta eat breakfast. Been up since 4 AM for #litchat. See you all next litchat I hope. -3:02 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| fannyfae @SighWTF I stopped doing that as much when I got first hand accounts that were diff from the text books. #litchat -3:02 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
| SighWTF @fannyfae I remember being shocked though the first time I realized a textbook was wrong for an error that should never have been.#litchat -3:07 PM Jun 12th, 2009 |
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