August 17, 2009: How Culture Informs & Directs Storytelling, open chat 1
The transcript below covers the complete #litchat conversation on August 17, 2009. The order appears sequentially from the first post to the final post. Topic was open discussion How Culture Informs and Directs Storytelling.
| LitChat Welcome to #litchat. We’re coming from Washington DC today. Joiin us now and introduce yourself. #Litchat |
| mciddangelo hallo evereebodee! #litchat |
| simonschuster RT @LitChat: Welcome to #litchat. We’re coming from Washington DC today. Joiin us now and introduce yourself. #Litchat |
| AndreaGardner @mciddangelo #litchat Hey All! |
| corb21 Hello All! #litchat |
| LitChat Topic of the week is HOW CULTURE INFORMS & DIRECTS STORYTELLING. #Litchat |
| dosankodebbie I’m here from Japan. Set my alarm clock twice for this! (though I’ll mostly just be eavesdropping) #litchat |
| VanessaDobbs Hi everybody #litchat |
| mciddangelo @LitChat the topic reflects the age-old argument of art reflecting life, or vice versa #litchat |
| stujallen hello all stuart from derbyshire #litchat |
| stujallen @VanessaDobbs hi vanessa #litchat |
| LitChat @dosankodebbie yea! You didn’t fall back asleep. #Litchat |
| VanessaDobbs @stujallen Hi Stu #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @LitChat I attempt to write what matters to me not the current market. #litchat |
| mciddangelo the topic can be addressed on two fronts: business and art itself. I believe. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy Hi everyone. I’m the word nerd behind Word Nerd Army, and I’m Ms Twitter UK. This week I’m guest blogging on Booktrust’s blog #litchat |
| AndreaGardner By the time we write what is “Current” and get it published, it no longer is in #litchat |
| mciddangelo @AndreaGardner that is true; and I often try to tailor-make my works to the market just to make a buck. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @mciddangelo But do they get published in enough time to be considered “Current?” #litchat |
| TimHoltorf #litchat I topic that hits home for me. This coming from a former broadcast journalist. |
| AndreaGardner @mciddangelo If so I want to know who your publisher and agent are because they will make HUGE $ in the fortune telling biz. #litchat |
| susanmpls @litchat hey litchaters, I work for a univ. press and read mostly fiction in my non-work reading. #litchat |
| stujallen tweetchat not working ,very well #litchat |
| corb21 Storytelling seems to me a timeline of culture because culture is always reflected in storytelling which is a neat play back. #litchat |
WordNerdArmy @susanmpls hello  it’s @rebeccawoodhead but in my Word Nerd outfit #litchat |
| mciddangelo @AndreaGardner in a broad sense. for example, what non-fiction topics are more headline than other articles #litchat |
| JSColley RT @JSColley: Received the galley copy of Denis Johnson’s Nobody Move. Looks great, can’t wait to read it. Thanks Pan Macmillian! #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy culture informs and directs storytelling in its form. Oral trad to written to film to twitter. Good stories transcend form #litchat |
| FictionCity Hi @litchat I write women’s fiction and live in Chicago. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy culture creates and is reflected by stories. Culture is high and ordinary. This is culture. Litchat is a story we all buy into #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @mciddangelo You’re right. I think NF is able to follow the current easier than F. #litchat |
| mciddangelo @AndreaGardner fiction is a case of whatever house has the courage to take a chance on a new trend instead of following one. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @mciddangelo You hit the nail, as usual! #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @writeranonymous are you joining #litchat tonight? It’s on now |
| AndreaGardner So should authors of Fiction take risks in an attempt to set the next Cultural trend? #litchat |
| corb21 @AndreaGardner @mciddangelo fiction can follow any “current” not nessisarily the one we’re in now. #litchat |
| corb21 #litchat tweetchat just crashed! oh no! I might have to FOCUS on my work again…help! |
| AndreaGardner @corb21 But if it is not a current trend or impressive enough it has more chance to flop. Or am I wrong? #litchat |
| susanmpls @AndreaGardner @mciddangelo IMO fiction follows trends, too. ex: lot of fiction w/characters who make enviroment-friendly choices #litchat |
| AndreaGardner RT @Debs1: @AndreaGardner I think it is important to be true to your story, wherever it takes you #litchat ~I agree! |
| WordNerdArmy @AndreaGardner yes, culturally, but it depends on whether they can afford to take that risk financially #litchat |
| mciddangelo @corb21 @fictioncity kind of addresses this when she tells us that she writes women’s fiction. that trend is up. #litchat |
| TimHoltorf @AndreaGardner I honestly don’t know about that. I think that could bog a person down. #litchat |
| mciddangelo @susanmpls I’m addressing that issue now, m-o-f, with my new anti-whaling suspense novel #litchat |
| kashicat @susanmpls Good point. And you’d have had waves of feminist fiction in certain time periods, etc. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner How many books have you read where there is no spirit? I think the reason is that the author was attempting to follow others ideas #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @susanmpls True #litchat |
| susanmpls @litchat define cultural trend re: fiction-do you mean trends w/in fiction publishing, or culture trends that appear in the story? #litchat |
| irenelevine @irenelevine Just joining #litchat |
| George9Writer @mciddangelo And the man takes the double-dog dare! Boo-yah! #litchat |
| AndreaGardner Yikes! I seem to be missing some of the tweets! #litchat |
| corb21 @AndreaGardner me too! #litchat |
| corb21 @AndreaGardner for example retro settings & storylines R popular. Also modern day characters whisked to other times and vice versa. #litchat |
| JSColley RT @George9Writer: @mciddangelo And the man takes the double-dog dare! Boo-yah! #litchat You’ve been watching too much Cramer. |
| LitChat In selecting our topic, HOW CULTURE INFORMS, we’re referring to ethnic culture, rather than pop culture. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner RT @corb21: @AndreaGardner I’m not sure that’s taking a risk so much as being in the right place at the right time. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner RT @corb21: @AndreaGardner That’s not ness an on-purpose task. #litchat |
| mciddangelo @LitChat ah, well, if ya wanna be specific about it and all. #litchat |
| corb21 @LitChat thanks for the clarification #litchat |
| AndreaGardner RT @corb21: @AndreaGardner for example retro settings and story lines are popular. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner RT @corb21: @AndreaGardner Also modern day characters whisked to other times and vice versa. #litchat |
| mciddangelo to talk of culture informs, the main inspiration of late has been the focus on the Iraq/Afghan conflicts and the peeps there. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @LitChat Late joining & Tweetchat not working… #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @LitChat Culture informing the author or the characters/story? #litchat |
| susanmpls #litchat thrillers good example of cultural influence on story. 25 yrs ago spy novels were US vs USSR. Today first world vs terrorists |
| jeremyduns Trying to get a grip on the topic of #litchat: how culture informs storytelling. I’m not sure I understand it! |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls Interesting! I write spy novels set in the Cold War (late 60s) and try to use what we know today to inform the stories. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @Litchat But is ethnic culture distinct from other forms in that way? #Litchat |
| mciddangelo kite runner and other works by Afghan writers have had a surge of popularity because of the conflicts #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy The appearance of vampires, disease etc connected with ‘Empire’ – fears of cultural ‘contamination’ etc – v interesting e.g. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner What defines Ethnic Culture? #litchat |
| doart @litchat Just joining. Memoirs of a Geisha is a great example of culture affecting story/characters. #litchat |
| dosankodebbie Wondering if aging/retirement conflicts seen from non-Western pov would appeal to Western readers (fiction for aging babyboomers) #litchat |
| susanmpls #litchat Nancy Drew is exmple of culture change: 1920s editions bad guys were always dark-skinned w/accent. That changed in later editions. |
| mciddangelo @doart I LOVE Memoirs of a Geisha! that is a good read. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @AndreaGardner all culture is ethnic. It’s the POV of the society from which it emerges – or the individual from which it emerges #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @dosankodebbie It seemed to work for Pearl Buck in Pavilion of Women. #litchat |
| mciddangelo @AndreaGardner Ethnic culture = works specific to a region or a people rather than the general mass. #litchat |
| danish_novelist At my readings in the US, academics told me that Scandinavian novelists always write about the outsider, but we all do! #litchat |
| TimHoltorf @dosankodebbie That’d be interesting. I write western fantasy. Take 2 elves, drop them into Deadwood in 1863, sit back and watch. #litchat |
| susanmpls @doart I loved memoirs of a geisha & would enjoy hearing how you think culture affected this book? #litchat |
| George9Writer Every writer has the palette of her/his cultural milieu to draw from – often having a novelty appeal to general reader #litchat |
| doart @mciddangelo In MOG culture changed her expectations in life and I had to think of the world from her perspective. #litchat |
| George9Writer Storytelling has, since the Beginning, been one way in which culture is imported from one society to another. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @George9Writer Sometimes, if we’re lucky, it is more human than novelty that makes for a cross cultural appeal #litchat |
| pussreboots @TimHoltorf Now that sounds like a fun fantasy. #litchat |
| dosankodebbie @Mer_Blackwood @TimHoltorf Reason I ask is cuz I’m translating a story about man dealing w/post retirement in Japan. Fresh or no? #litchat |
| AndreaGardner I get the Ethnic Culture def but my confusion comes because shouldn’t all works help someone else understand a point? #litchat |
| pussreboots @dosankodebbie I think there’s lots of interest in Japanese stories beyond the manga that is imported. #litchat |
| TimHoltorf @pussreboots It’s a blast, because the two characters see human society in a different light #litchat. |
| mciddangelo @susanmpls you know, I guess we can draw WWII parallels to MOG #litchat |
| danish_novelist @George9Writer Many reviewers of The Tsar’s Dwarf thought that my novel was wonderfully weird. Maybe I’m more Danish than I think? #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @dosankodebbie Fresh to me. I usually like books that can give me an appreciate for another time, place, and culture. #litchat |
| TimHoltorf @dosankodebbie I’d still be interested in that. My own reading is rather diverse. #litchat |
| corb21 merger of cultural classics with pop culture is certainly a new trend ie PRIDE AND PREDJUDICE AND ZOMBIES or PRADA AND PREJUDICE #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @AndreaGardner only if you believe fiction always has to be didactic. If not then why shouldn’t fiction deceive or be unreliable? #litchat |
| corb21 Keep forgeting to write “#litchat” |
| Mer_Blackwood @dosankodebbie And I don’t know a darned thing about what it’s like to be a retired man in Japan. #litchat |
| pussreboots @TimHoltorf I liked the western setting of Rapunzel’s Revenge. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @AndreaGardner I think all work should tell a good story. If someone sees from a new POV as a result, it’s all to the good. #litchat |
| susanmpls Sometimes I think we trust novelists over journalists to teach us about other cultures & places. #litchat |
| pussreboots @Mer_Blackwood Neither do I but I would read a book about it. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant Tweetchat is back up #litchat |
| jeremyduns @susanmpls Sometimes I think we should. #litchat |
| mciddangelo @susanmpls but, it is interesting to note how those geishas lived to be what they were to men, contrast to how westn women are. #litchat |
| danish_novelist @Mer_Blackwood I wrote about a raunchy female dwarf in The Tsar’s Dwarf and I’m only raunchy #litchat |
| mciddangelo @susanmpls or, to be more simple, the way Japanese culture reflects the male-dominated society that the west isn’t #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy I think sometimes literary fiction challenges cultural preconceptions and commercial fiction confirms them #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @susanmpls @jeremyduns I probably do trust novelists over journalists, often … #litchat |
| George9Writer @deberryandgrant True (hopefully), though it seems ‘novelty’ might be one reason publishers choose to market it. #litchat |
| TimHoltorf @pussreboots I’m gonna have to check that out. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @susanmpls sometimes it’s the only way we learn about any where else. I think books should be windows, not mirrors #litchat |
| jeremyduns By ‘ethnic culture’ do we mean ‘cultures very different to our own’? #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @susanmpls @jeremyduns Maybe not to show every point of view. But I expect most novelists try to tell someone’s POV well. #litchat |
| George9Writer @WordNerdArmy Hi Rebecca! If so, then how would upmarket (lit fic + commercial) fit into that equation? #litchat |
| danish_novelist @susanmpls Novelists are better at getting to the emotional truth than journalists and historians, that’s probably why #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @deberryandgrant Ladies you are ON today! #litchat |
| susanmpls @deberryandgrant agreed. tho occasionally the book as mirror highlights our own corruption and helps us see the need for change #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy And sometimes the other way round? Not sure I see the link. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @WordNerdArmy Agreed. #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @danish_novelist “emotional truth” GOOD ONE! That is why I laugh and cry so much while writing, no doubt. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy would ‘Stuart: A Life Backwards’ be a story informed by ‘ethnic’ culture – subculture #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @jeremyduns I’m not convinced the culture has to be VERY different. Esp. in this country.We are all Americans, but have many diffs #litchat |
| susanmpls @mciddangelo the west has a male-dominated society that is different from Japan, but I’d argue that West is still male-dominated. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @George9Writer I don’t think up-market is inherently literary, just different demographic audience. #litchat |
| pussreboots @TimHoltorf It’s a very good graphic novel (sequel coming out soon). #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @AndreaGardner LOL. Been lazing around doing nothing for a few weeks–missed #Litchat. You can tell?!! #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @TwinkleChar And more than not your readers will feel when they read those same paragraphs. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Which camps would you classify Orwell, Greene, Huxley, Ambler, Dostoevsky or Dickens? #litchat |
| danish_novelist @TwinkleChar Of course. Good literature should make you laugh, cry, and vomit #litchat |
| pussreboots @jeremyduns All of them write social commentary but in different genres. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @George9Writer That’s interesting to me because my novels are contemporary style – easy to read – but deal with literary/cultural.. #litchat |
| mcvane Noooo! (cries) RT @susanmpls Sometimes I think we trust novelists over journalists to teach us about other cultures & places. #litchat |
| dosankodebbie I agree @susanmpls @mciddangelo I’d argue that West is still male-dominated. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @George9Writer ..concerns and observations #litchat |
| TwinkleChar RT @danish_novelist: @TwinkleChar Of course. Good literature should make you laugh, cry, and vomit #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @danish_novelist and shout in anger–argue with the characters… Then you’ve had a good read. #litchat |
| mciddangelo @jeremyduns social fiction commentators, and you didn’t throw in Oscar Wilde #litchat |
| jeremyduns @deberryandgrant I’m not American. But WASP culture, for instance, is also ethnic, the ethnicity white. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @pussreboots Exactly! #litchat |
| George9Writer @BenRubinstein Supposedly ‘upmarket’ bridges literary and commercial, though it seems a broad category. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @mciddangelo I only had 140 characters. #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes @WordNerdArmy I think sometimes lit fiction can be more “dangerous” cos it confirms preconceptions but pretends not to #litchat |
| danish_novelist @deberryandgrant I agree. We should be allowed to hate characters, but indifference is a killer #litchat |
| mciddangelo @susanmpls @dosankodebbie good argument, but from a male POV, I think western women are not domm’d now (humbly ducks his head) #litchat |
| jeremyduns @mcvane Why cry at that? If I want to learn about Europe in the 30s, is Eric Ambler a worse guide than newspaper archives? #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns Hi saw you in Writing mag this month – probably literary. Dickens, for example, deals with complex social issues.. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @jeremyduns Absolutely. But when 1 ethnicity is the dominant culture of a country, other ethnicities become somehow more different #litchat |
| 10MinuteWriter My WIP does all three! TwinkleChar RT @danish_novelist: @TwinkleChar Of course. Good literature should make you laugh, cry, & vomit #litchat |
| AndreaGardner RT @agnieszkasshoes: Good point! Very dangerous! #litchat |
| George9Writer @WordNerdArmy That said, would you consider your own books to challenge, or confirm, culturual preconceptions? #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @danish_novelist Indifference is the killer of everything…ultimately of all #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns but also uses humorous observation. Technically cross-over I guess but I’d say literary if pushed. #litchat |
| VictoriaMixon Mystery, mayhem, and sci fi—Free Edits of novel hooks, Week Two! http://victoriamixon.com #writechat #litchat #novels #editing #revision |
| George9Writer @mciddangelo You’re on your own, bro. #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @George9Writer Perhaps rather than challenge or affirm, the quest is to “question.” #litchat |
| danish_novelist @jeremyduns Why do writers have to belong in camps? If so I’m a tragicomic Danish historical satirical novelist. Sigh. #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @mciddangelo Duck and RUN bud! #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Did you? Great! Dckens was seen as commercial fiction then. Death adds weight! #litchat |
| George9Writer @agnieszkasshoes A generalization, Dan, and subject to the definition of ‘literary fiction’: assumption that it’s status-quo. #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @TwinkleChar Meant to type correct quote which was to challenge or confirm … Fickle fingers. #litchat |
| mcvane @jeremyduns Because many Scottish historical/contemporary novels abroad enforce stereotypes / offer skewed portrayal of Scotland. #litchat |
| susanmpls @mciddangelo A more accurate way to state it is that Western women aren’t as silent as the Geisha is shown to be in Golden’s bk. #litchat |
| LitChat Excellent convo to start the week. Carry on on as you wish, but be sure to come back on Wednesday for more. #Litchat |
| deberryandgrant @jeremyduns as commercial as they come. He was serialized… #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @mciddangelo We still do not get paid what men do for the same job. AND the religious persecution of women in the US is sickening! #litchat |
| susanmpls @mcvane is that bad? to trust novelists above journalists? #litchat |
| dosankodebbie @mciddangelo @susanmpls By”male domin”I’m thinking economy/politics still centers round men even in West.Places of power&influence. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns like I said, technically it crosses over but I view it as literary because it’s subversive. It feels like it’s written #litchat |
| George9Writer @TwinkleChar My own quest: to question, to challenge, & sometimes subvert. #litchat |
mciddangelo @susanmpls @dosankodebbie I mean, (clears throat) what I meant to say was … is it hot in here?  #litchat |
| jeremyduns @mcvane How about foreign journalists covering Scotland? #litchat |
| AndreaGardner @susanmpls – Great comeback! #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns for a purpose other than financial gain or immediate popularity. It speaks over generations. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @deberryandgrant Aren’t all publshd writers commercial, or trying to be? The books aren’t given away! #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @mcvane I see journalists routinely doing hatchet jobs on their political opponents. As a class, I can’t trust them at all. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @dosankodebbie @mciddangelo @susanmpls of course it does. No matter how you dress it up, it’s still a man’s world… #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @jeremyduns exactly. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy But doesn’t it take generations to know that? Not sure I like this crossing over stuff. Doesn’t it mean ‘I liked it’? #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @jeremyduns I know that I don’t find the term offensive at all. Literary means you want to be reviewed. Commercial means making $$ #litchat |
| danish_novelist @Debs1 I agree. Characters with good and evil conflicts are the best. That’s why I love compassionate Nazis and hateful priests #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @jeremyduns And this is my job. I don’t do it for free…so commercial I am proud to be. #litchat |
| DocClef @litchat Hi, I’m a somewhat published poet, podcaster, and essayist, intruding and dropping in. Commerce vs. Art is the topic? #litchat |
| dosankodebbie @mciddangelo I’m only interested in the male-dom aspect as it relates to what readers can relate to, esp in fiction about Japan. #litchat |
| mciddangelo I think that women dominate many areas of the west – including the publishing world. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @George9Writer re: my books – both. I wanted to write really good stories that made people think about how they view others.. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @deberryandgrant Surely ‘literary’ writers want to make money, too? Why send off the envelopes? #litchat Straying OT, sorry! |
| AndreaGardner Ok all, I must run. My kids who are visiting their Grands are on the phone. Hope to catch you on Wed. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @DocClef No, sorry, the topic is etnhic culture’s influence on storytelling! #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @George9Writer they’re not literary because they’re easy to read and you don’t HAVE to do battle with the issues to ‘get’ them.. #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns I’ve written stories aimed directly for a market. Work in progress is in a format with almost no commercial prospects. #litchat |
| George9Writer RT @deberryandgrant … I don’t find the term offensive at all. Literary means you want to be reviewed. Commercial means making $$ #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @deberryandgrant Commercial also wants to be reviewed well, which can lead to $. Sometimes. Right? :< #litchat |
| jeremyduns @deberryandgrant Same! #litchat |
| mcvane @jeremyduns If journalists screwed up, you can call them on it. You can’t wth authors because they’ll flash creative licence card. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @George9Writer In my experience, “upmarket” just means that it’s commercial fiction with tennis rackets/horses. Could be cynical. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @DocClef No not at all. Topic is How (Ethnic) Culture Informs Fiction #litchat |
| mciddangelo @dosankodebbie Clavell’s Shogun was set in Feudal Japan, and you can see how repressed women were, but that was a caste system #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns Making money would be great, but I really wanted to tell this particular story, and it wants an archaic format. #litchat |
| George9Writer @WordNerdArmy I applaud you for that desire, and hope that you can do so. #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes @deberryandgrant yes still man’s world but mustn’t let that disguise other inequalities. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @mciddangelo There are many women in publishing, yes. In the lower/mid positions. Executive is largely male #litchat |
| jeremyduns @Mer_Blackwood Fair enough, but if you try to get it published it will then be ‘commercial fiction’, surely. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @jeremyduns @TwinkleChar Sometimes. But you both know exactly what I mean! LOL #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @George9Writer Also, I wrote them for readers rather than reviewers BUT I’d be bored if they were just a good read #litchat |
| susanmpls @mciddangelo There are notable women at the top in Pub & we know their names. The men at the top? Too many to remember them all. #litchat |
| DocClef @jeremyduns “”If my notes should cause the groom, whom I haven’t met, an uneasy moment or two, so much the better…” #litchat |
| JSColley @jeremyduns Don’t you think some authors just want to be read? Although not too many would say no to the money, if offered. #litchat |
| danish_novelist @jeremyduns Literary writers want to make tons of money, but it’s not the most important for us. Is it for you? #litchat |
| DocClef @jeremyduns “…Nobody’s aiming to please, here. More, really, to edify, to instruct”" JD Salinger re: subversive vs. commerce #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @deberryandgrant I don’t think that’s a good dichotomy. Lots of commercials get reviewed and sell. #litchat |
| George9Writer @BenRubinstein Interesting, will have to look more deeply (or less) into this upmarket phenomenon. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @Mer_Blackwood But do writers of so-called ‘commercial fiction’ not also write stories they want to tell? And then try to sell it? #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @mcvane I can call anybody on anything. With what effect? #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @agnieszkasshoes Absolutely not. No “lipstick on the pig” here–no offense just couldn’t help the almost archaic cultural ref! #litchat |
| mciddangelo @susanmpls my agent is female, my eds have been female, heck, most of my writer friends are female #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes @deberryandgrant been blogging lots on publishing & social/cultural exclusion www.agnieszkasshoes.blogspot.com (after the hats!) #litchat |
| susanmpls @MCidDAngelo not trying to attack, but don’t believe women are anywhere near equity. do believe better than at some times in hist. #litchat |
| JSColley @mciddangelo Shogun is one of my all-time favorite books. Cried when I read Clavell passed away. #litchat |
| dosankodebbie @mciddangelo The theme I’m dealing with in my translation is how a Japanese man loses power/respect/life meaning when he retires. #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns Sure. Just that some stuff has a lot more commercial potential. I don’t write epic poetry expecting bestsellerdom. #litchat |
| jeremyduns I have opened a hornet’s nest! #litchat Hold on a sec while I reply. |
| mciddangelo @BenRubinstein good point, mon frer. #litchat |
| DocClef @deberryandgrant “How (Ethnic) Culture Informs Fiction #litchat” is it not culture in general that informs literature, and the reverse? |
| BenRubinstein @mciddangelo Good example. I interned at Lit Agency. 5/7 of the agents were female. The 2/7 were the owners. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns Students of lit get to define ‘literary’ in retrospect. Critics in the present. #litchat |
| DocClef @deberryandgrant I’m multi-ethnic myself, so yes, it does inform. It informs the person and that background informs the work. #litchat |
| George9Writer Have we come full-circle, by mistake? “How the Culture of COMMERCE Informs Storytelling” #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes @WordNerdArmy much literary fic is very easy to read: Ellis’ Less Than Zero; Yoshimoto’s Kitchen; even Life of Pi #litchat |
| jeremyduns @DocClef Salinger was a writer of commercial fiction, ie published. No longer. And I love JD, but that’s not a flattering quote! #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @BenRubinstein Yes–and perhaps I should have said reviews of the right sort: NYT Review of Books, Kirkus, WAPO, etc. not USA Today #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns Why don’t you like the ‘cross over’ thing? Thinky Commercial work better for ya? #litchat |
| mciddangelo @susanmpls oh no, heh! I’m not defending or attacking either – it’s a good topic! #litchat |
| dosankodebbie @susanmpls @MCidDAngelo My interest is in how quickly men become powerless after retirement even in a male-dom society like Japan. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein RT @WordNerdArmy: @jeremyduns Students of lit get to define ‘literary’ in retrospect. Critics in the present. #litchat (nicely put) |
| jeremyduns @JSColley But it’s not offered: they seek it out! As do all published writers. So ‘commercial fiction’ seems an odd distinction. #litchat |
| susanmpls @mcvane things read is newspaper presented as “fact” vs. w/ novel, reader should know to ask: truth or made up & verify #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy Am writing an article at the mo about literary v commercial. I’m calling it ‘would you rather be clever or popular?’ #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @dosankodebbie @susanmpls @MCidDAngelo their life has been their work. When that’s done, to them (many of) all is gone. #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @deberryandgrant Do you think PW reviews matter as much as the ones you mention? After all, writers read too. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @DocClef In the best cases, absolutely. #litchat |
| DocClef @jeremyduns (OT! I know!) I was quoting “For Esme”, writ. in 1950, just thought it would inform the conversation. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @BenRubinstein thanks for the rt – glad you liked that #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @JSColley Mine as well. Loved it. #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns In some ways, it is an odd distinction. #litchat |
| mciddangelo @dosankodebbie @deberryandgrant I think it is a society norm for both retired men and women to become less effective. #litchat |
| George9Writer @agnieszkasshoes Sorry, though we studied it in college, I do not accept Less Than Zero as literary fiction – cynical nepotism | #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @jeremyduns @JSColley We didn’t invent the term “commercial,” but we use it because the industry does. #litchat |
| danish_novelist You only get satisfaction as a writer when you write from your heart, not from your wallet. But we need all kinds of books #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @agnieszkasshoes literary fiction IS dangerous – that’s why I love it #litchat |
| DocClef @WordNerdArmy – clever or popular is a false dichotomy, we tend to reward cleverness (in the “cuteness sense”) with popularity. #litchat |
| dosankodebbie @deberryandgrant Yes, but does society discard a post-retirement man as thoroughly in the West as is true in Japan? #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @mciddangelo Hm. I think retired women are at an age where they’re often coming into their power, maybe in a new form or adventure. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy I don’t like either much! I think both terms are slightly disingenuous and condescending. #litchat |
| DocClef @jeremyduns – I think we can agree that the purpose of selling literature is different from writing it. You can’t sell what isn’t. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @dosankodebbie I don’t think society does, I think here it’s a self imposed kind of exile. I watched it happen to a good friend #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @dosankodebbie Was a career police officer retired as chief. Now watches history channel, golf channel and talks about the old days #litchat |
| DocClef literature is dangerous, subversive, popular, and commercial. No need to separate it out. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @deberryandgrant Sorry, wasn’t blaming anyone, just pointing out the oddness. Somerset Maugham wrote ‘commercial fiction’. #litchat |
| TheNewAuthor @WordNerdArmy If you are clever long enough you will be popular with the ones you should be popular with…I think you will. #litchat |
| mciddangelo why is it that I get a jump in SPAMMER followers whenever I’m in #litchat? or #writechat? |
| dosankodebbie @mciddangelo @deberryandgrant Less effective yes, but there’s still a place for retired men in Western society. Not so much Japan #litchat |
| susanmpls @JoLynneValerie “online, indie & small presses” not the money center of the industry. tho like to think we are the innovators #litchat |
| SteferstheGreat @mciddangelo I’ve never noticed that myself… hmm… Interesting. #litchat #writechat |
| deberryandgrant @danish_novelist I think heart compels us to write in the 1st place. On the other hand, I admit the wallet keeps me on task. #litchat |
| ShelahMarie RT @DocClef: literature is dangerous, subversive, popular, and commercial. No need to separate it out. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Popular! Isn’t the point to be read? If not, keep the thing in your drawer. #litchat |
| DocClef @dosankodebbie I think the loss of a sense of purpose is a great angle on the subject. Whereas in American culture it’s…#litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns #litchat creativity is thwarted by commercialism but blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism |
| agnieszkasshoes @WordNerdArmy lit fic gr8 when it’s dangerous TO the establishment. Not so much when dangerous FOR it #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @jeremyduns No offense taken. It is very odd. But we seem to be stuck with it. #litchat |
| DocClef @dosankodebbie in your 20s, Japanese corporations give that purpose to them early. I would say it’s a shift of value. Great topic #litchat |
| TheNewAuthor I believe we should have an Editors appreciation day. I am revising my MS and I know understand how tough their job really is. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns it’s not an ENTIRELY serious title. It struck me that it was high school philosophy on an adult stage #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @DocClef @WordNerdArmy I agree, “clever” doesn’t mean evocative or controversial, which is more where literary goes. #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @agniezkasshoes I wouldn’t agree with that. There are establishments I don’t want overthrown and evil revolutions. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy How about the readers? And sorry, I thought ‘thinky’ was a typo. Is that your term? It’s horrid! #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes @George9Writer I did say “sometimes”: read too much middle class drivel pretending to be edgy/radical (like Ellis in fact!!) #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @dosankodebbie What is the place of retired men in Western society, that is greater than in far-Eastern? #litchat |
| DocClef RT@WordNerdArmy It struck me that it was high school philosophy on an adult stage <- awesome! #litchat |
| George9Writer @jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Should be a balance between commercial viability and literary significance. NOT mutually exclusive. #litchat |
| StevenSavile @jeremyduns you are such a little rabble rouser, Mister Duns, says the commercialist of commercial writers heh #litchat |
| jeremyduns @Debs1 Aren’t they inextricably linked? To reach readers you need to sell it, usually. Hence my dislike of the term! #litchat |
| deberryandgrant RT @DocClef: literature is dangerous, subversive, popular, and commercial. No need to separate it out. #litchat |
| DocClef Non-commercial writing comes from your soul, not your wallet; though sometimes it could come from broke desparation. #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes @Mer_Blackwood true. It’s when they become exclusive & normative at once you have problems #litchat |
| jeremyduns Well put! RT @WordNerdArmy #litchat creativity is thwarted by commercialism but blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns I think you’re being reductive if you say the point of writing is simply “to be read.” Any beach-read is “read.” 1/2 #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Sadly, I think it’s the level the discussion of that issue is still at. #litchat |
| DocClef @jeremyduns one of the great things about our more fringe-based culture is that uncommercial ideas find their audience. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns hmm. You don’t ‘do’ light-hearted do you? ‘Thinky’ was my term for that second. I apologise if it offended u & will.. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns But “beach-reads” aren’t the most many authors strive to create 2/2 #litchat |
| jeremyduns @StevenSavile I know! I never mean to be, honest. Back me up, then! #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns attempt to be utterly humourless for the rest of litchat :¬l #litchat |
| dosankodebbie @DocClef The story’s focus is not so much shift in man’s own values, but shift in how society views the value of a retired person #litchat |
| deberryandgrant RT @WordNerdArmy #litchat creativity is thwarted by commercialism but blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @Jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy Knowing that what I’m writing is centuries out of fashion is just realism. Narcissism? Nah … #litchat |
| DocClef @jeremyduns I know that this line of thinking may seem naive, but it’s important to note. We haven’t come too far from pamphlets. #litchat |
| jeremyduns What if you wrote a commercial novel just because you loved that sort of book and wanted to write one? Shocker! #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns excellent – you finally caught up with that tweet. Glad I wrote something of which you approve :¬l #litchat |
| DocClef RT @WordNerdArmy #litchat creativity is thwarted by commercialism but blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns @wordnerdarmy Means if I want readers I need a long-term plan, and need to find them through my own efforts. #litchat |
| DocClef Also RT @deberryandgrant #litchat |
| George9Writer @jeremyduns Nothing at all wrong with that … as long as you do it well. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns That’s fine, but that’s not literature any way you argue it. So therefore the distinction holds on a basic level #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @Mer_Blackwood – the point is that you are writing for readers so you’re not writing without the market in mind #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns @wordnerdarmy These days most writers have to work at finding their own readers. #litchat |
| StevenSavile @jeremyduns what can I say? I’m a hack heh. Would argue with @DocClef whether I am writing Stargate or Silver its still my soul #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns Great! There’s a lot of ‘commercial’ stuff I love to read. #litchat |
| DocClef I’m in love with the forced brevity of this conversation. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Depends on your definition of ‘beach read’. #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @BenRubinstein Re “beach reads.” U honestly believe writers don’t set out to write them?Don’t hope to make “best beach read” lists? #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @wordnerdarmy Yeah. It’s just that it’s a small and particular market. If I didn’t want to communicate, I’d scribble in a diary. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein So if it sells well it can’t be literature? #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy nothing wrong with writing just for yourself – a diary is something you write for yourself but 4 it to be lit there must be readers #litchat |
| DocClef @litchat I have a whole list of beach-reads I must grab. They are quite literary. Pages in between binding, after all. #litchat |
| George9Writer RT @deberryandgrant These days most writers have to work at finding their own readers. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy Don’t want to have to choose btw clever and popular. Will take both thank you. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy ..or there must be readers in the future #litchat |
| StevenSavile @jeremyduns @BenRubinstein don’t you mean it’s not ‘great’ or ‘worthy’ or some variant? Tis still literature #litchat |
| dosankodebbie @BenRubinstein Maybe the post-retirement opportunities for contributing to society and family are greater for a Western man? #litchat |
| DocClef @deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy actually not a fan of clever, though I’ve been accused of it from time to time. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said literature didn’t sell well. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @George9Writer I work hard down the Twitter mines finding my readers – v hard work… Hye Ho!! #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy am 1/2 of a writing team and while we had a story we wanted to tell, from the beginning we wanted this 2 b a career. #litchat |
| George9Writer My books are literary (they use words) and commercial (they are for sale, and sometimes people buy them) … cultural too! #litchat |
| danish_novelist @deberryandgrant Maybe we all would be better off if we kept our hearts in our wallet? #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @TwinkleChar The opposite, I think authors definitely intend to write “beach-reads” when they do. #litchat |
| DocClef @StevenSavile …and I would agree. Point! #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes RT @deberryandgrant These days most writers have to work at finding their own readers [it IS work, but can be SO rewarding too] #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @DocClef I quite like clever. Don’t care for cunning. But clever is A-OK w/me. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @StevenSavile I think we’re using diff. definitions of “literature.” I mean as opposed to commercial. #litchat |
| DocClef @StevenSavile my point wasn’t that commercial literature wasn’t soulful, indeed it could be, I’m a fan of the commercial. #litchat |
| jeremyduns ‘Those who have lived before such terms as ‘high-brow fiction’, ‘thrillers’ and ‘detective fiction’ were invented realize that… #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @agnieszkasshoes We have been very fortunate in both finding and keeping them. Not easy, but u r right-very rewarding. #litchat |
| jeremyduns …melodrama is perennial and that the craving for it is perennial and must be satisfied.’ TS Eliot #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @agnieszkasshoes Working on our end of summer newsletter to them now–or I should be. #litchat |
| StevenSavile @DocClef I write two kinds of book, media and original, I couldn’t do either without burying my soul in it. It’s my life. 1/2 #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @danish_novelist Love it!! #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @deberryandgrant nothing wrong with that. I need to write commercial fiction but I want to write it too. There’s a place for both #litchat |
| deberryandgrant RT @danish_novelist: @deberryandgrant Maybe we all would be better off if we kept our hearts in our wallet? #litchat |
| George9Writer @BenRubinstein “Literature” relates to content: from Samizdat to editions put out by major pub. houses #litchat |
| StevenSavile @DocClef it takes you 6 hrs to read it, but it is my every waking minute while I work on it for months. I’d go mad any other way2/2 #litchat |
| TwinkleChar @BenRubinstein Thanks for clarify. What do you think makes something a beach-read book? Do literary readers frequent the beach too? #litchat |
hfibonik No, blind creativity without a market is *art*.  T @WordNerdArmy …blind creativity without a market is emotional narcissism #litchat |
| DocClef @litchat – another false dichotomy – commercial vs. literary. Great literary stuff in the end, becomes quite commercial. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein My point is just that I don’t see why those terms are used as opposing ones. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns nice quote. Of course it’s nonsense. The commercial and literary markets were around in middle ages. #litchat |
| StevenSavile @BenRubinstein #litchat then perhaps you mean worthy of being considered part of literary cannon? Strikes me as a different to literature |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Huh? You said if it was commercial it wasn’t literature. What did you mean, then? #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy We love what we do. So do our readers. So does our publisher. And most reviewers. What else could a girl want? #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Don’t understand, why does viewing a book as in a genre prevent you from appreciating melodrama? Shakespeare had genres #litchat |
| DocClef @StevenSavile in the set of ‘noncommercial’ tends to be self-indulgent, but soulful. There are certainly self-indulgent in commerce #litchat |
| susanmpls @mcvane back to the trust thing. w/ novelist you get bias which can reveal feelings, thoughts, POV a journalist can’t/won’t say. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @deberryandgrant that’s so wonderful. I hope one day I can say that too #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Calling something a “thriller” or “detective fiction” has 0 to do with lit/commercial distinction. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy It’s a shame the quote doesn’t fit into 140 characters. Every thriller/writer I know would RT it! #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein What’s the distinction then? #litchat |
| DocClef So this whole commerce vs. art discussion has been a grave misunderstanding? #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy rt @susanmpls … w/ novelist you get bias which can reveal feelings, thoughts, POV a journalist can’t/won’t say #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @WordNerdArmy I hope you can too! Wish you great writing vibes and much success. #litchat |
| StevenSavile if you aren’t indulging yourself and your soul when you put pen to paper what are you doing? I write little pieces of me #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Indeed Shakespeare did. Eliot was arguing that great writers of the past used melodrama, but… #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Yes but thrillers, highbrow, detective fiction can be either commercial or lit. Lit/Commercial doesn’t identify genre #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns don’t doubt that for a second – it’s commercial in that way #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @StevenSavile Not at all. The “lit” in lit/com dichotomy means exactly that it could be put in a literary cannon. #litchat |
| jeremyduns That in the 20thC, works that used melodrama were largely looked down on, seen as ‘low-brow’ – leading to a lot of dull works. #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes @deberryandgrant wonderful. I might just sign up. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns – read some of the work that sweeping statement purports to speak of then tell me all the subtle hues are melodrama #litchat |
| DocClef @BenRubinstein so what makes something literary? Certainly Sherlock Holmes and On the Road were commercial successes as well as #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein My point has been that ‘commercial’ is misleading for that side of things. Literary fiction also in shops! #litchat |
| kbeninato Clopular? @WordNerdArmy Am writing an article about literary v commercial. I’m calling it ‘would you rather be clever or popular?’ #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Really? The Fountainhead was melodrama to the MAX, pure 20th lit. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Not all would see it that way. Many view thrillers as ‘beach reads’ incapable of being literature. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns plus – if it’s perennial then it’s not historic. It’s current. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Actually, The Fountainhead is great example of lit that was very popular. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein All generalisations have exceptions. But harder to be taken seriously with melodrama now than in Shakey’s day. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @agnieszkasshoes We just this afternoon got an email from reader who had created a slideshow about our last novel for her bk club! #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns Dull poetry, too, owing to looking down on communicating with the reader in a comprehensible fashion. #litchat |
| DocClef @StevenSavile case in point. RT @DocClef @DocClef all I write is self-indulgent!All I write is self-indulgent! #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein So it was commercial fiction then, wasn’t it? It sold very well. See the problem in the term? #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns Stieg Larson wrote literary thrillers b/c have themes exposing 21st cent chauvinism/ social issues #litchat |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy I didn’t follow that – what work, what hues? #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @jeremyduns – have you even read Shakespeare? He’s rather too skilled to be brushed aside as melodramatic #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @jeremyduns I say the term holds. Only time it falls apart is in cases of VERY GOOD titles, that are both. 5% of titles are obth. #litchat |
| deberryandgrant Must dash! It’s been swell as usual. See you next time… #litchat |
| BenRubinstein @WordNerdArmy I disagree! Although I think Shake had some works more commercial than others (The Tempest) #litchat |
| agnieszkasshoes RT @deberryandgrant We just got an email from reader who had created a slideshow about our last novel for her bk club! #litchat [so cool!] |
| jeremyduns @WordNerdArmy I’ve read Shakespare. I wasn’t brushing him aside as that. I am defending melodrama, which is 1 element in his work. #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @WordNerdArmy That depends on your considering melodrama a perjorative term. #litchat |
| BenRubinstein Must go too guys, thanks very much for this excellent discussion! #litchat |
| DocClef @deberryandgrant thanks for clearing this all up, sorry for the OT-ness. Later. #litchat |
| ub3Herrick @mciddangelo #litchat #writechat They’re always lurking, waiting for you to make yourself visible so they can POUNCE! |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Not read him (must be the last person in Sweden not to!), but where’s your lit/comm opposites? You say he’s both. #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy @BenRubinstein you disagree? You would brush his work aside? Wow. You surprise me #litchat |
| mciddangelo sorry, I was away. Did anything exciting happen? #litchat |
| StevenSavile @BenRubinstein Hang on, the quality of language in Larson’s Girl series is absolutely plain, so the issues make it literary? #litchat |
| WordNerdArmy righto – got to dash. Great chat #litchat |
| kbeninato @MargaretAtwood is both literary and popular, and her new book tour will include a full theatrical production http://bit.ly/11WcXS #litchat |
| StevenSavile @jeremyduns even Larson’s editor described it as a beach book heh #litchat |
| jeremyduns @BenRubinstein Subjective, but I can think of many commercial thrillers that qualify as literature. #litchat |
| JSColley @deberryandgrant Sorry I didn’t respond earlier, life gets in the way. – And yes, the industry does. Lit can be commercial also #litchat |
| ashantyvicite @MCidDAngelo Oh, nothing. I just won the Pulitzer. *grins* #litchat |
| JSColley RT @deberryandgrant: @JSColley Mine as well. Loved it. #litchat Did I mention I cried when I heard Clavell passed away. Sappy but true! |
| George9Writer Great #litchat, all of you. Possible topic for next time: “How Can You Tell When You’ve Gone Too Far in Fiction?” #litchat |
| DocClef Well I need to head out. It’s been a pleasure, and as this internet tends to prove, honed my perspective. #litchat |
| JSColley Night all! #litchat |
| jeremyduns @George9Writer Thought you were going to say ‘Taken #litchat too far off-topic’! Sorry about that. It was @StevenSavile’s fault. |
| Nobilis @George9Writer #litchat I agree, that would be a great topic. My mentor says, “When you feel like you’ve gone too far, keep going.” |
| George9Writer @jeremyduns No, not at all – this whole Literary vs Commercial conundrum is one of my favorites #litchat |
| George9Writer @Nobilis I’ve been working in that very same spirit #litchat |
| jeremyduns @George9Writer I’m frustrated it’s still an issue. Why is the protagonist’s profession indicative of a novel’s worth? #litchat |
| JadoreBrittanie I’m late. What’s the topic?? I’m missing my nap for #litchat |
| George9Writer @JSColley You go to bed this early? Jeez! Gonna go read Nobody Move? #litchat |
| deberryandgrant @JSColley Sappy is OK–good in fact! #litchat |
| George9Writer @jeremyduns I don’t get it – please explain ‘protagonist’s profession’ in ref to literary, commercial #litchat |
| Mer_Blackwood @jeremyduns It isn’t, to me. #litchat |
| jeremyduns @George9Writer If the protagonist is a novelist, say, it’s ‘literary’ = worthy. He’s a detective? It’s ‘commercial’. Often. Still. #litchat |
| StevenSavile @George9Writer @jeremyduns he blames me? All I did was say I was a hack #litchat |
| AndreaGardner RT @MCidDAngelo: sorry, I was away. Did anything exciting happen? #litchat -haha! Did u go into hiding after you poked the beast? |
| jeremyduns @StevenSavile Anyone who can write the line ‘Judas wept’ is not a hack. #litchat |
| Iapetus999 What NOT to Blog About as a #Writer http://awe.sm/18la #novel #litchat |
| George9Writer @AndreaGardner For a good time, call Cid “Captain Baha” #litchat |
| StevenSavile @jeremyduns heh and yet it pays the bills. How odd #litchat |
| George9Writer @jeremyduns Interestingly, you see detectives now in crossover lit-commercial fiction … to me, it’s all about writing quality #litchat |
| jeremyduns @George9Writer Yes, me too. But the distinction is still there. The term ‘cross-over’ refers to it. #litchat |
| George9Writer @StevenSavile More power to you if you’re published and happy about it … you might still write a Big Lit novel #litchat |
| jeremyduns @George9Writer Maybe he has, but it had a detective in it? Or a vampire, spy, etc. Like Dickens, etc. #litchat |
| rossb54 RT @danish_novelist: U only get satisfaction as a writer when U write from yr heart, not from yr wallet… #litchat Try http://bit.ly/BAWuI |
| jeremyduns @George9Writer But you were joking, of course. I hope. #litchat |
| StevenSavile @George9Writer @jeremyduns #litchat (keep forgetting the tag) hah nice one J. But no ‘great lit’ yet… maybe one day. |
| George9Writer @jeremyduns About the detective-like influence? Not joking: Paul Auster, Wm T Vollmann, 2666 #litchat |
| jeremyduns TS Eliot on melodrama: http://bit.ly/irapm #litchat |
| jeremyduns @George9Writer No, about the possibility of someone who pays the bills through writing managing a ‘big lit’ novel. Maybe he has! #litchat |
| George9Writer @MCidDAngelo Sorry Captain. But don’t be surprised if you have a mysterious new nickname… #litchat |
| FoundingEditor Great #news #litchat #writegoal – My #poetry will be included in the Fall issues of “The Smoking Poet” “Long Story Short” “Ribbons”…. |
| George9Writer @StevenSavile @jeremyduns Big Lit been known to happen, though sometimes we have to wait till after we’re dead #litchat |
| FoundingEditor #litchat #writegoal – My #poetry included in the Fall issues of “Wisteria”, “Modern Haiku” “Simply Haiku (now online)” & “Chrysanthemum” |
| George9Writer @StevenSavile @jeremyduns Big Lit been known to happen, though sometimes we have to wait till after we’re dead #litchat |
| jeremyduns @George9Writer Yep. Dickens a case in point. #litchat |
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